Ella's parents suing Noblesville shooter's parents

[bwframe]

Why so little faith? Senator Jim Merritt has a plan. He's going to sponsor a bill to require gun owners to secure their guns and penalty for failure could be a felony. And he's a Republican.
Although in fairness I believe he's just planning to ride this issue for the Mayor's race.

https://fox59.com/2018/12/07/senato...ly-secure-weapons-after-noblesville-shooting/

Dunno why being a Republican has anything to do with this? This is not a gun issue, it's a responsibility issue. It should be a felony if your youth commits a crime with a weapon you are responsible for securing.

 

[Ziggidy]

Just curious. If they were locked up, is it considered a crime of theft by the son? What happens when a gun that is securely locked up gets stolen by an burglary? Is the gun owner liable?

I remember a few times that guns were stolen or lost by government officials and people were killed. Nothing happened. What is the difference?

 

[Hohn]

It should be a felony if your youth commits a crime with a weapon you are responsible for securing.

This suggests to me either a bit of naivete or arrogance, I'm not sure which. Do you really believe you truly can--or should-- secure something from your kid for the long term? If your kid is that dangerous and untrustworthy, the institution is the place for them.

There a lot of judgment in that post that is simply not appropriate. Not to mention you are making the argument for gun control-- that access to a weapon, not the character or intent of the person-- is the critical thing in gun violence.

Cops are killed because another cop failed to secure the firearm. Should we indict the cop who "failed" on a felony?

For that matter, police are charged with public safety. Are we going to indict every cop because they "failed" in one of their responsibility to secure the public?


Maybe you are the perfect parent with perfect kids and are uniquely positioned to pass judgment.

For the rest of us, there but for the grace of God go we, hoping our kids follow the straight and narrow as we've tried to guide them.

 

[bwframe]

... Do you really believe you truly can--or should-- secure something from your kid for the long term? If your kid is that dangerous and untrustworthy, the institution is the place for them...

Yes.

It's my responsibility as a parent, and it's your's too.

 

[Hohn]

Yes.

It's my job as a parent, and it's yours too.

I have good kids. I need not always have my items locked away from them. They respect guns and respect others.


They're locked up anyway. But I'm not going to judge someone keeping a loaded 20ga behind the screen door, and neither should you.

 

[bwframe]

I have good kids. I need not always have my items locked away from them. They respect guns and respect others.


They're locked up anyway. But I'm not going to judge someone keeping a loaded 20ga behind the screen door, and neither should you.

You are welcome to store your firearms how you see fit. If you do it irresponsibly, resulting in others being harmed, YOU are accountable.

 

[KMaC]

Dunno why being a Republican has anything to do with this? This is not a gun issue, it's a responsibility issue. It should be a felony if your youth commits a crime with a weapon you are responsible for securing.

I think everyone believes that gun owners are responsible for their guns. The Noblesville shooter's parents kept them in a safe. None of us know whether they properly secured the key.
The article quotes Merritt as noting that his bill would not have prevented the Noblesville shooting and his response sounded suspiciously Obamaesque "but we've got to do something even if it is ineffective".
I noted Merritt's political affiliation because it is usually Democrats that promote gun control. I consider this a gun control issue if the law will require guns to be in a safe while not within the owner's direct control, like while he sleeps, even if they don't have children living in the house.
If I live alone and there is an emergency that brings authorities to my house in the middle of the night and they find my nightstand gun unsecured should I face a felony?
I believe that Merritt plans to run as the Republican nominee for Indianapolis Mayor and this issue may provide him some cross party support.

 

[bwframe]

I think everyone believes that gun owners are responsible for their guns. The Noblesville shooter's parents kept them in a safe. None of us know whether they properly secured the key.
The article quotes Merritt as noting that his bill would not have prevented the Noblesville shooting and his response sounded suspiciously Obamaesque "but we've got to do something even if it is ineffective".
I noted Merritt's political affiliation because it is usually Democrats that promote gun control. I consider this a gun control issue if the law will require guns to be in a safe while not within the owner's direct control, like while he sleeps, even if they don't have children living in the house.
If I live alone and there is an emergency that brings authorities to my house in the middle of the night and they find my nightstand gun unsecured should I face a felony?
I believe that Merritt plans to run as the Republican nominee for Indianapolis Mayor and this issue may provide him some cross party support.

Like I said...

You are welcome to store your firearms how you see fit. If you do it irresponsibly, resulting in others being harmed, YOU are accountable.

 

[SirLiftsALatte]

Dunno why being a Republican has anything to do with this? This is not a gun issue, it's a responsibility issue. It should be a felony if your youth commits a crime with a weapon you are responsible for securing.

"Hang on, Mr. Burg'ler, I must retrieve my HD gun from my safe before you can break in."

Except, in this case the weapons WERE locked up, so the proposed law wouldn't accomplish anything anyway. It's a terrible thing that happened, but we need to stop withe knee-jerk infringement laws.

The bolded is just an absurd claim. You are NOT responsible for the crimes of others.

 

[Ark]

Well, that reasoning is just a hop, skip, and a jump away from "owning firearms in the first place is always negligence".

"Gun owners must never be the victim of a crime" is an impossible standard. Perfect security does not exist.

 

[LP1]

No one ever* takes "every penny they have". Homeowners' insurance and an umbrella if there is one. If liability is found, this is where the money will come from.

*Maybe it happened once, somewhere, but I've neither been involved with, or even heard about executing about personal assets in 20 years of practice.

Depends. When a criminal act is involved, liability insurance may or may not cover it - depends on many factors - policy wording, coverage limits, what they are being sued for (a criminal act, or not), how good their lawyer is, and how badly the insurance company wants to fight it. (Worked in the insurance industry for a number of years and am familiar with policy provisions, but can't say that I ever encountered this situation.)

 

[Hohn]

You are welcome to store your firearms how you see fit. If you do it irresponsibly, resulting in others being harmed, YOU are accountable.

The storage is not the proximate cause of the harm. So the “if” scenario here is moot. Not locking up your guns doesn’t cause harm. Only people can shoot people. Not guns.

You didn’t know you supported a key tenet of gun control did you? Guns don’t kill people. People do.

 

[Fallschirmjaeger]

The storage is not the proximate cause of the harm. So the “if” scenario here is moot. Not locking up your guns doesn’t cause harm. Only people can shoot people. Not guns.

You didn’t know you supported a key tenet of gun control did you? Guns don’t kill people. People do.

Well said!

 

[Denny347]

No one ever* takes "every penny they have". Homeowners' insurance and an umbrella if there is one. If liability is found, this is where the money will come from.



*Maybe it happened once, somewhere, but I've neither been involved with, or even heard about executing about personal assets in 20 years of practice.

Will they pay punitive damages? I can say it REALLY sucks having that hanging over your head.

 

[bwframe]

I'm not playing straw man games, thanks anyway though.

Also not going to engage with those who confuse gun control with personal and parental responsibility.

Every gun owner is responsible for the security of their children and the security of their firearms. They are accountable and should be held so.

 

[Ark]

I'm not playing straw man games, thanks anyway though.

Also not going to engage with those who confuse gun control with personal and parental responsibility.

Every gun owner is responsible for the security of their children and the security of their firearms. They are accountable and should be held so.

Are you liable if somebody hauls you out of your car at a stop light, jumps in, and runs down a group of people?

Clearly you were negligent and failed to secure a potentially deadly object against criminal activity. Better lock the knife drawer, keep the sharp tools in a safe, lock up your kid's little league bat so he doesn't hit anyone with it...

 

[bwframe]

If it's not the gun owners responsibility to keep their firearms secure, whose is it?

If it's not the parents responsibility to account for their children, whose is it?

 

[Ark]

If it's not the gun owners responsibility to keep their firearms secure, whose is it?

If it's not the parents responsibility to account for their children, whose is it?

Individuals are accountable for the actions of individuals.

When it comes to school shooters, they are of age to be held accountable and punished. They are not helpless babes.

Why this need to see an entire family of people punished, imprisoned, bankrupted, and ruined for the actions of one? Would you apply that same expectation to a stabbing? Running someone over with a car? Poisoning? Why is it only gun-related crimes where people have this expectation that three, four, more people be punished for an individual's actions?

 

[ljk]

If it's not the gun owners responsibility to keep their firearms secure, whose is it?

If a thief stole your gun and used it to rob someone, are you a victim or an accomplice?

 

[bwframe]

Parents have no responsibility for the actions of the children they "parent?"

Gun owners have no responsibility to secure the firearms they own?