Emergency Responders, I have a question

[MrsGungho]

Fire truck running lights and siren.

Do they need to make sure intersections are clear before proceeding, especially if the light is red?

 

[sparky241]

truthfully no. Its a good practice to, but they don't have to. In Indiana you are suppose to yield the right of way to responding personnel.

 

[possum_128]

Our department policy is to stop or at least a rolling stop when coming to an intersection that is a blind intersection. If we can see clearly both ways then we may go on through safely. Does not matter if we have the green or red.

I can tell you that there is in fact a lot of people who will not see of hear a big red ladder truck with everything going, lights, air horn etc.

It helps no one if an emergency vehicle is involved in an accident when responding to another emergency.

 

[Barrn]

Yes, they must verify a clear and safe intersection before entering the intersection, especially if entering against a red traffic signal or stop sign.

Indiana Code 9-21-8-35

(d) This section does not operate to relieve the person who drives an authorized emergency vehicle, a recovery vehicle, a utility service vehicle, or a road, street, or highway maintenance vehicle from the duty to operate the vehicle with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.9. Amended by P.L.18-1999, SEC.1; P.L.39-2000, SEC.7; P.L.1-2001, SEC.6; P.L.14-2010, SEC.1.

 

[MrsGungho]

Been doing a bit of research on this tonight and even though motorists are to yield right of way to emergency responders with lights & sirens I have found that does not give emergency responders absolute right to control the roadway. In the instance of a blind intersection, a deaf person is allowed to drive, yet can't hear etc. It is reasonable to believe that at times people don't always hear the siren and see the lights.
Still interested in hearing other depts policies etc.
Thanks guys.

 

[iamaclone45]

with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway(roadway)

This is the most important part. If you as the emergency vehicle operator can prove you were operating “in due regard for the safety of all persons” then you can drive as you wish, technically. If you think there isn’t a lawyer out there that can prove you wrong you’d be a fool.

Anyone running lights and sirens that doesn’t at least yield at a red light / stop sign is an idiot in my book. Here in Lafayette we have busy intersections that I’ve had to sit at for 30 seconds or more before all 4-6 lanes of traffic are stopped. If I’m rolling up on a stop sign with good visibility in all directions with no visible traffic, I’m more willing to make a quick yield and continue on through. All red lights we are going against will either get a complete stop or a very strong yield (slow to 5-10mph or very slow creep).

I just don’t see the point of driving like an idiot when running lights and sirens, the risk is just too great.

 

[phylodog]

It is reasonable to believe that at times people don't always hear the siren and see the lights.

Unfortunately yes, it is reasonable. Considering about 40% of drivers become completely unaware of anything going on outside of their personal transportation capsule. May as well knock the mirrors off, pull the fuse for the turn signals and blacken out every window but the windshield because they don't get used anyway. Another 30% of the drivers on the road believe that it's a great idea to lock up the brakes or pull to the right if they see lights behind them.

The emergency responder bears legal responsibility to ensure they are not endangering other drivers on the road when responding to a call.

 

[ashylarry]

I always come pretty close to a stop unless I can see what is or is not coming towards the intersection.

 

[G_Stines]

It is reasonable to believe that at times people don't always hear the siren and see the lights.

Due regard is the legal requirement. So if the light is red from the approach then the emergency vehicle must yield, until the other vehicles forfeit their right of way to it. We respectfully ask that you yield. It is not necessary, however you can be ticketed for failing to do so.

While it is reasonable to believe and understand that not everyone can hear/see the warnings that we provide, I have had instances where someone failed to move out of the way for more than a mile. I have been known to take down license plates and call them into dispatch to pass on to PD in the event that someone fails to yield excessively or without reason (i.e. no one in front of them, and plenty of shoulder to move over.)

Also, as a tid bit, if an emergency vehicle is behind you at a stoplight, and has no access, it is permissible that you proceed through a red light to allow it to pass as long as you immediately yield afterwards and proceed through the light in a safe and appropriate manner. Not technically legal, but we wont tell the officers, and if they write you a ticket about it, and I was driving, I would offer to pay it.

 

[MrsGungho]

Due regard is the legal requirement. So if the light is red from the approach then the emergency vehicle must yield, until the other vehicles forfeit their right of way to it. We respectfully ask that you yield. It is not necessary, however you can be ticketed for failing to do so.

While it is reasonable to believe and understand that not everyone can hear/see the warnings that we provide, I have had instances where someone failed to move out of the way for more than a mile. I have been known to take down license plates and call them into dispatch to pass on to PD in the event that someone fails to yield excessively or without reason (i.e. no one in front of them, and plenty of shoulder to move over.)

Also, as a tid bit, if an emergency vehicle is behind you at a stoplight, and has no access, it is permissible that you proceed through a red light to allow it to pass as long as you immediately yield afterwards and proceed through the light in a safe and appropriate manner. Not technically legal, but we wont tell the officers, and if they write you a ticket about it, and I was driving, I would offer to pay it.

I always wondered about that too. Thank you for that info.

 

[Benny]

Another 30% of the drivers on the road believe that it's a great idea to lock up the brakes or pull to the right if they see lights behind them.

Is this not what we are supposed to do? I've done this since I've had a driver's license. I've always thought that was the polite thing to do...It seems like getting out of their way so they have a clear path to drive(ie, not having to swerve into oncoming traffic).

I always wondered about that too. Thank you for that info.

Please note that he said it is NOT legal to do that...He's just saying he won't radio in that someone just committed a traffic violation.

It's very noble of him to offer to pay the ticket, but what about your premiums that will, without a doubt, go up? Or even worse, that person that swerves to dodge you and ends up dead/injured? You are the one that committed the traffic violation.

 

[Denny347]

I hate running lights and sirens. I turn them on and instantly all traffic stops in my path. Nothing like driving in the left lane (since you pull over to the right) only to have the car in front of me stop in the left lane. The the car next to them in the right lane stops.....no where for me to go. I just pull up to the rear of the car in the left lane and give them the evil eye until they get the jist that they need to move over. It is safer to just speed past them quiet, they never even knew I was there.

 

[MrsGungho]

I hate running lights and sirens. I turn them on and instantly all traffic stops in my path. Nothing like driving in the left lane (since you pull over to the right) only to have the car in front of me stop in the left lane. The the car next to them in the right lane stops.....no where for me to go. I just pull up to the rear of the car in the left lane and give them the evil eye until they get the jist that they need to move over. It is safer to just speed past them quiet, they never even knew I was there.

I see a police car in my mirror (lights & siren or not) my eyes first go to the speedometer and then I safely pull to the right.

bazooka, I did note it was still illegal to make that move. I'll continue to do what I do now, if I am at a dead stop at a red light and can't pull over to the right, I will remain where I am and let them find a way around.

 

[Benny]

I see a police car in my mirror (lights & siren or not) my eyes first go to the speedometer and then I safely pull to the right.

bazooka, I did note it was still illegal to make that move. I'll continue to do what I do now, if I am at a dead stop at a red light and can't pull over to the right, I will remain where I am and let them find a way around.

And I'll continue to do just that as well.

The last thing the first responders need is a multi-car pileup because of me(us) running a red light.



I'd still like to know what phylodog meant when he lumped the goobers who lock up there breaks with the people who politely pull over to the right of the road...Maybe it was just worded wrong or maybe I'm misreading his post, but I want to know what the proper protocol is if I'm not supposed to do that.

 

[G_Stines]

It's very noble of him to offer to pay the ticket, but what about your premiums that will, without a doubt, go up? Or even worse, that person that swerves to dodge you and ends up dead/injured? You are the one that committed the traffic violation.

I in no way am saying that it should always be done. I am simply stating that 90% of the time you won't be faulted a ticket, it really can mean the difference between life and death. Of course it is a personal judgment call and you should only do so if it is appropriate. As far as the dead and injured bit goes... you must have missed this:

".... proceed through the light in a safe and appropriate manner."

That means you are safe as well as everyone else.

 

[Kick]

Motorists are supposed to yield to emergency vehicles. Emergency vehicles are supposed to make sure that the intersection is clear before proceeding through it. If everyone does their part, everyone is safe. If an emergency vehicle runs the red light and you go through a green light, you will most likely be found at fault (unless the emergency vehicle was going some insane speed). However, the driver of the emergency vehicle will most likely be suspended from work for however long agency policy dictates.

 

[03mustgt]

I always slow or stop when going through intersections. It's in our SOP also.

 

[wtfd661]

I'll continue to do what I do now, if I am at a dead stop at a red light and can't pull over to the right, I will remain where I am and let them find a way around.

That always works out well when EVERYONE is doing that at a busy intersection and there is no way for us to get around.

 

[kedie]

I hate running lights and sirens. I turn them on and instantly all traffic stops in my path. Nothing like driving in the left lane (since you pull over to the right) only to have the car in front of me stop in the left lane. The the car next to them in the right lane stops.....no where for me to go. I just pull up to the rear of the car in the left lane and give them the evil eye until they get the jist that they need to move over. It is safer to just speed past them quiet, they never even knew I was there.

I hate that. Some people just freak out when they see an emergency vehicle. The worst ones are the ones that just stop in the middle of the road, and a 60,000 pound fire truck isn't going to stop on a dime.

Oh and air horns + Q siren > evil eye.

 

[redneckmedic]

truthfully no. Its a good practice to, but they don't have to. In Indiana you are suppose to yield the right of way to responding personnel.