Estimated low point for gasoline?

[Vigilant]

This. $3.79 is better than $4.25, but it's still painful.

i really wish an economist could explain why a product that costs less to produce is significantly higher than another?

 

[smokingman]

i really wish an economist could explain why a product that costs less to produce is significantly higher than another?

Our number one export to Europe is Diesel,and demand has increased over 60% since 2000.
Diesel usage has increased 25% in the USA since 2007.The demand for gasoline has collapsed by over 42% in the same time frame.
Diesel is taxed at a higher rate than gasoline at 24.4 cents vs 18.4.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

i really wish an economist could explain why a product that costs less to produce is significantly higher than another?

Because cost of production has no impact on the worth of a product in the market. Supply and demand does.

 

[Leo]

As much as we are enjoying the lower price, I do nt think it is going to be here for the long term. My concern is about a drastic currency devaluation by congress to make up for when we cannot borrow any more money from foreign sources. It happened in Germany right after WWII

 

[BehindBlueI's]

As much as we are enjoying the lower price, I do nt think it is going to be here for the long term. My concern is about a drastic currency devaluation by congress to make up for when we cannot borrow any more money from foreign sources. It happened in Germany right after WWII

We borrow most of our money from ourselves. We "owe" the Federal Reserve and the Social Security trust alone as much as we owe all foreign sources. About 2/3 of the debt is to domestic sources, including those big two. Devaluing the dollar when 2/3 of the dollars are borrowed in dollars from ourselves doesn't make much sense.

 

[amboy49]

More importantly I would love to have a 250 - 500 gallon tank installed and take advantage of the lower prices on a larger scale. Anyone know what the "shelf life" of gasoline is ? If I purchased 500 gallons and it took me a year to use it is the gasoline stable enough to remain usable for several (more than 12) months ?

 

[Leo]

More importantly I would love to have a 250 - 500 gallon tank installed and take advantage of the lower prices on a larger scale. Anyone know what the "shelf life" of gasoline is ? If I purchased 500 gallons and it took me a year to use it is the gasoline stable enough to remain usable for several (more than 12) months ?

As anyone with motorcycles or weed eaters has experienced, without some additives, modern gas is pretty much spoiled in 6 months of storage, at the 12 month period, it is so deteriorated that It will not start a lawn mower. Ethanol really shortens fuel life.

 

[bwframe]

 

[trailrider]

Gas still hovers around 2.50 where I live but that is an improvement. I drive 140 miles a day so this is awesome!!

 

[Dead Duck]

Just kidding - I miss the 70s.

 

[9mmfan]

Prices up here are in the low $2.30's. I wouldn't mind if it went lower. Say under $2 a gallon.

 

[mom45]

I got it for $2.27 today in Valparaiso. Wanatah was $2.32 and about 10 miles east of there was $2.49. I believe it is $2.54 in Knox. At least, it was on Friday.

Crazy how you can drive 20 miles and save 27 cents a gallon.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The wife filled up in Bedford for about $1.77 a gallon last night...













...of course she had about $.50-60 in fuel points she had to use to get it.

 

[igotdiesel2]

I paid $3.389 for diesel yesterday and was ECSTATIC! My f250 was on E and then some and I filled up for $80.00.

 

[CountryBoy19]

As anyone with motorcycles or weed eaters has experienced, without some additives, modern gas is pretty much spoiled in 6 months of storage, at the 12 month period, it is so deteriorated that It will not start a lawn mower. Ethanol really shortens fuel life.

What? That's a big load of bull... as a matter of fact, the gas without ethanol was much more problematic. How often do you hear about varnish problem today? Never? Why? Because the ethanol is a solvent, it cleans the varnish out.

The only "deterioration" that happens is if you leave it open to the atmosphere and it draws enough moisture to cause phase separation, you leave it open to the atmosphere so the more volatile fractions evaporate off leave the non-volatile (less flammable) ones in the can, or you put it in something with incompatible lines and the lines themselves deteriorate (nearly unheard of with anything made in the last couple decades).

FWIW, I just rotated out some fuel stores of regular 10% ethanol gas that had been stored for over 2 years, it ran just fine in everything I put it in. What is my secret? Air-tight storage and nothing more, no additives or snake oils, just put it in an airtight storage vessel.

Also, to add, I ran 10% ethanol gas in my OPE (chainsaw, weedeater, mower, etc) for several years without problems. I only recently began running ethanol free fuel in them and the reason is 100% unrelated to any "deterioration" or "fuel quality" issues. The reason is due to BTU content. E10 has approximately a 3-4% decrease in BTUs and with newer OPE that has limited carb adjustments that 3-4% BTU difference can mean a large difference in running temp. Running lean is great for emissions, but bad for engine life. I want better engine life but the adjustment limiters won't allow that; running ethanol free gives me a slightly richer running engine which means cooler, which means longer life. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with ethanol eating fuel lines or deteriorating or anything else people like to make up about ethanol fuels...

 

[Leo]

What? That's a big load of bull... as a matter of fact, the gas without ethanol was much more problematic. How often do you hear about varnish problem today? Never? Why? Because the ethanol is a solvent, it cleans the varnish out.

The only "deterioration" that happens is if you leave it open to the atmosphere and it draws enough moisture to cause phase separation, you leave it open to the atmosphere so the more volatile fractions evaporate off leave the non-volatile (less flammable) ones in the can, or you put it in something with incompatible lines and the lines themselves deteriorate (nearly unheard of with anything made in the last couple decades).

FWIW, I just rotated out some fuel stores of regular 10% ethanol gas that had been stored for over 2 years, it ran just fine in everything I put it in. What is my secret? Air-tight storage and nothing more, no additives or snake oils, just put it in an airtight storage vessel.

Also, to add, I ran 10% ethanol gas in my OPE (chainsaw, weedeater, mower, etc) for several years without problems. I only recently began running ethanol free fuel in them and the reason is 100% unrelated to any "deterioration" or "fuel quality" issues. The reason is due to BTU content. E10 has approximately a 3-4% decrease in BTUs and with newer OPE that has limited carb adjustments that 3-4% BTU difference can mean a large difference in running temp. Running lean is great for emissions, but bad for engine life. I want better engine life but the adjustment limiters won't allow that; running ethanol free gives me a slightly richer running engine which means cooler, which means longer life. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with ethanol eating fuel lines or deteriorating or anything else people like to make up about ethanol fuels...

Your calling me out as bull does not align with the last 50 years of experiences I can remember personally or with anyone I have ever known.

Maybe you want to pay my bill for the fuel system repairs on a modern bike that was stored 9 months? I think I can still find the bill.

Every spring it is hard to get into the service at every Marina I have ever used due to boats not being winterized.

in 2013 I fired up a modern car out of a widows estate, she had not driven much in a couple years. Pouring fresh gas into the throttle body would start right up, but it would not stay running. Only draining and replacing the old gas from the tank and blowing out the lines got it to stay running. It was a new enough car to have an unvented fuel system.

If you have a weed eater or a lawn mower that will start and run right after an Indiana winter without new gas, let me know what they are. I bought a new Toro, a new Troy built and a new Stihl when I bought this house in 2012. They will not start in the spring, and gas from last years can would not start them. Got a new can and new gas, everything started. I had all the caps on everything, it is not like I left it in an open bucket.

If what you are asserting is true, then there would not be a small engine or mower shop in the midwest that could stay in business. If it cost a dollar every time a repair shop charged a customer for repairing fuel related problems, it would not take long to drain a bank account.

You used the words "make up". I reject your opinion on this matter.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Maybe you want to pay my bill for the fuel system repairs on a modern bike that was stored 9 months? I think I can still find the bill.

And the problem was? Can it be directly related to ethanol fuels? Or is it just something that can be or was blamed on the fuel by the mechanic?

Every spring it is hard to get into the service at every Marina I have ever used due to boats not being winterized.

Not being winterized properly; what is the purpose of winterizing? What problems does it prevent?

Like I said previously, phase separation with ethanol is a problem if the fuel gets enough water in it (can be a bigger problem for marine applications). That being said, non-ethanol fuels have a much lower tolerance for water in the fuel system than ethanol fuels. Ethanol keeps the water in-solution so it can go through the fuel system without a problem; it's only after it has taken on a large amount of water that phase separation occurs. Are you implying that there were no problems with water in fuel systems prior to ethanol blends becoming popular? If you think ethanol causes those problems you're delusional... ethanol actually helps prevent water in the fuel system. Gas line anti-freeze that is often use in winter sports engines (snow-mobile etc) are nothing more than alcohol blends. Those blends mix with the fuel, and absorb the water into solution so that it can be run through the system rather than cause a blockage in the system.

What are some of the problems people are having with "non-winterized" marine engines?

I will admit to one glaring issue with ethanol blends. They are an excellent solvent, they keep our fuel systems cleaner than they have ever been. The one glaring problem with that is if you put it into a fuel system that isn't clean (hasn't had ethanol in it before etc) it will break loose all the junk in the fuel system and that will end up in your carb bowl, injectors, or fuel filter and you will most certainly have problems. It will be extremely frustrating, but after that junk gets cleaned out you will never have the problem again...

in 2013 I fired up a modern car out of a widows estate, she had not driven much in a couple years. Pouring fresh gas into the throttle body would start right up, but it would not stay running. Only draining and replacing the old gas from the tank and blowing out the lines got it to stay running. It was a new enough car to have an unvented fuel system.

"unvented fuel system" isn't what you think it is. It is absolutely vented, and any vehicle left to sit for 9 months without even starting it may have problems. Are you implying that prior to ethanol blends you could leave cars sit for 9+ months routinely and never have a problem?

Anecdotal evidence of a single car having a problem that may or may not be caused by ethanol fuels, mechanical issues, rodent issues, fuel system problems, or storage conditions doesn't negate science...

If you have a weed eater or a lawn mower that will start and run right after an Indiana winter without new gas, let me know what they are. I bought a new Toro, a new Troy built and a new Stihl when I bought this house in 2012. They will not start in the spring, and gas from last years can would not start them. Got a new can and new gas, everything started. I had all the caps on everything, it is not like I left it in an open bucket.

Yes, weedeater is a Stihl FS130R, chainsaws are a modified Stihl MS170, Dolmar DCS 6400, Stihl 034 (made well prior to ethanol fuels and still doesn't have any problems), Lawnmower is a Toro made Lawnboy made in the early 2000's IIRC. Every single one of them run just fine in the spring on the fuel that was left in the tank in the fall. They are a little stubborn to start because the fuel system has lost prime, but they fire right up without any maintenance, fuel flushing etc...

If what you are asserting is true, then there would not be a small engine or mower shop in the midwest that could stay in business. If it cost a dollar every time a repair shop charged a customer for repairing fuel related problems, it would not take long to drain a bank account.

That has absolutely zero reflection on the fuel issue. Mechanical devices still fail, carbs still need work, engines still need maintenance, and not a thing in the world is going to change that. That being said, if stored properly and run in engines with compatible fuel systems, ethanol is NOT the culprit of all of these issues.

It's funny how we have gone decades of running engines with non-ethanol fuel blends and all the problems associated with such were due to poor maintenance or letting gas sit too long in the tank to the point it degraded. Yet, when ethanol fuels came about all of the sudden every single problem we've encountered was due to the stinken ethanol in the gas, it's causing everything to break... when really not much has actually changed. Poor maintenance is poor maintenance, poor storage is poor storage...

You used the words "make up". I reject your opinion on this matter.

That's fine, it's a highly debated topic that typically comes down to anecdotal evidence versus scientific evidence that is often mocked as having an agenda is simply being un-true. We'll ultimately have to agree to disagree, you go on your merry way blaming ethanol fuel mixes, I'll go on my merry way praising the cleaner fuel systems we have as a result of ethanol fuel blends... You continue having problems and blame them on the ethanol, I'll continue running problem free on ethanol fuel blends...

No disrespect intended...

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I agree with CountryBoy:

Properly storing gas = Good

Improperly storing equipment = Bad

 

[Leo]

I can live with that.



Merry Christmas

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Now that it's this low, I can get back to doing what I love