Even SF Libtards have limits

[Ogre]

Sure lets discuss it. The bums in that part of the country, at least what I saw in my 2months of living in downtown Portland Oregon were all over the place. I am talking about people in their 20's fully capable of working, constantly bugging you for money, food, cigarettes.

How is the city supposed to survive when these bums ruin it for, travelers, property owners, citizens. I would sooner see those rights protected. This law is designed to do that, yes that is it's purpose, to make it undesirable to hang around all year at these places.

The funny thing is, with all the services that were previously given to these people the problem is compounded, now they want to try to stem it some a little too late though.

No "F",ing law is needed in this instance. There are laws on the books against someone defacating on your business door step, there are already harrasment and assualt laws on the books. You know why vagrants of any age and physical capability hang out in Portland? because they can survive doing it. Quit "F",ing giving them food or money and they will move on, get jobs and support themselves, or die. I don't care what their choice is. We have vagrants in indy that simply ask for money, walk and talk with you until they pop the "got any change" line on you, and I don't get all upset and offended. They have the same right to that sidewalk as I do, they can freely converse with anyone on the sidewalk, just like me, but I have the stones to refuse them any help of any kind. Thats my choice and right.

 

[Phil502]

No "F",ing law is needed in this instance. There are laws on the books against someone defacating on your business door step, there are already harrasment and assualt laws on the books. You know why vagrants of any age and physical capability hang out in Portland? because they can survive doing it. Quit "F",ing giving them food or money and they will move on, get jobs and support themselves, or die. I don't care what their choice is. We have vagrants in indy that simply ask for money, walk and talk with you until they pop the "got any change" line on you, and I don't get all upset and offended. They have the same right to that sidewalk as I do, they can freely converse with anyone on the sidewalk, just like me, but I have the stones to refuse them any help of any kind. Thats my choice and right.

Absolutely get rid of the freebies, no question but no politicians have the stones to do it. I don't give out anything either but I am not easily intimidated either. Theres a lot of people that can not easily defend themselves. The current laws are not working. What I am hearing is people finally saying...enough already! It's not just people not giving them money that matters, these cities have all kinds of programs for them, all at the taxpayers expense, not to mention the "sanctuary city status" of Frisco. These people even protect the Illegal Alien drug peddlers from prosecution.

 

[dross]

Panhandling is free exchange - not the government's business. However, public sidewalks are established for certain purposes, and their rules are determined by those who pay for them.

Living and setting up a begging business may be prohibited activities for public sidewalks.

So, if I'm walking by you on a public sidewalk, I should be able to ask you for money. If, however, I set up a begging business outside the front door of your place of business, that might be a reasonably prohibited activity.

Waiting on a ride, or waiting for a shop to open seems like reasonable activity. Using a sidewalk as a bed, however, might be reasonably prohibited.

 

[rambone]

Waiting on a ride, or waiting for a shop to open seems like reasonable activity. Using a sidewalk as a bed, however, might be reasonably prohibited.

So the bottom line is that this law that was passed is a turd. As it is written, harmless, innocent people can be punished right along with the people it is meant to target. A good law does not affect innocent people. This one is way too broad and will affect the innocent. That's a sign that this is a bad law. And I don't have faith that common sense will prevail. Ask me why.

Just one more in a very long list of ways to criminalize every misstep we take, in my opinion.

That 30 day jail sentence should really scare those starving homeless people. A warm bed & 3 meals a day probably sounds pretty appealing when you eat out of a dumpster and sleep in the gutter. This will cost the taxpayers far too much to "punish" people who already have nothing to lose.

 

[dross]

So the bottom line is that this law that was passed is a turd. As it is written, harmless, innocent people can be punished right along with the people it is meant to target. A good law does not affect innocent people. This one is way too broad and will affect the innocent. That's a sign that this is a bad law. And I don't have faith that common sense will prevail. Ask me why.

Just one more in a very long list of ways to criminalize every misstep we take, in my opinion.

That 30 day jail sentence should really scare those starving homeless people. A warm bed & 3 meals a day probably sounds pretty appealing when you eat out of a dumpster and sleep in the gutter. This will cost the taxpayers far too much to "punish" people who already have nothing to lose.

I pretty much agree with you here. What I don't agree with is the conclusion of some here that we should have no power to regulate what occurs on public property.

 

[steveh_131]

I pretty much agree with you here. What I don't agree with is the conclusion of some here that we should have no power to regulate what occurs on public property.

I would have to agree. There can be regulation of what occurs on public property.

Also agree with Rambone that this law is not the answer.

 

[dross]

I would have to agree. There can be regulation of what occurs on public property.

Also agree with Rambone that this law is not the answer.

At this point, we can all join hands and sing Kumbaya.

We just can't do it on the sidewalk in SF.

 

[rjstew317]

At this point, we can all join hands and sing Kumbaya.

We just can't do it on the sidewalk in SF.

well...you can, as long as you continue to move at reasonable pace and no one takes a dump on the sidewalk

 

[steveh_131]

well...you can, as long as you continue to move at reasonable pace and no one takes a dump on the sidewalk

My right to keep and bear poop shall not be infringed.

Geeze, try reading a book.

 

[rjstew317]

My right to keep and bear poop shall not be infringed.

Geeze, try reading a book.

been reading all day, needed a break.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I know this sounds crazy, but I kind of liked an America where people could do what they wanted as long as they weren't infringing on other's rights to do the same.
.

Huh. Point to me a time in the history of America that this has been the case.

 

[Bondhead88]

You know, there is a big difference between allowing someone to simply exist on public property and allowing someone to defecate on your private property.

If you'd like to discuss the legality of someone soliciting your customers or damaging your property then we can do so. That is not what's being discussed here.

people do not have the right to be vagrants, they do not have the right to loiter, they do not have the right to make a home on a public sidewalk, they do not have a right to be an obstacle to people's right of way on a public sidewalk, they do not have a right to sleep on city grates.

People do not have a right to live off the finances of others, they do not have the right to block store keepers doors, they do not have the right to panhandle in front of business'.

They do not have these rights anywhere. a free society does not mean free to infringe your privileges and preferences upon everyone else.

While watching the news recently I see students in the UK protesting the new tuition prices. they have been upset because until recently it was subsidized by taxpayers. Now taxpayers have voted in a government to stop this type of spending.

Apparently the students have other thoughts and have been blocking the streets, damaging store owners shop, damaging cars trying to prove they have a RIGHt to everybody elses money.

They think it is their RIGHT to have their education payed for by everybody else.

They are wrong, people living, loitering being vagrant are wrong, they do not have a RIGHT to be there.

Because we now live in a "me generation" we live in a "don't tell me generation""you're not the wife of me generation" ....lol... we have mixed up our rights, our privileges and our preferences.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Huh. Point to me a time in the history of [STRIKE]America[/STRIKE] the world that this has been the case.

FIFY

 

[level.eleven]

At this point, we can all join hands and sing Kumbaya.

We just can't do it on the sidewalk in SF.

Well, to be fair, there is still that elephant in the room known as "public" property. But you're right, its the Holidays. Add this one to the audit the fed thread - everyone agrees!

 

[rambone]

Add this one to the audit the fed thread - everyone agrees!

Everyone except the OP. Tee hee!

 

[thompal]

Like the right to own a business without some guy bugging all your customers or taking a crap in your doorway when it's raining.

Well, if he's taking a crap in your doorway while it's raining, he's obviously committing a crime. If he's just sitting on the sidewalk down the street, how is that a crime? And before you say that it may make your customers uncomfortable, I would say that if they feel uncomfortable but are not being aggressively hassled, then maybe they need to come out of their nerf world and catch a glimpse of reality.

People bellyache about the homeless, saying how it makes them uncomfortable to see them. I call BS. If people see them ENOUGH, and are really UNCOMFORTABLE just by their existence, then maybe they should get off their probably-too-wide behinds and do something to help the homeless situation. If the homeless are forced into homeless compounds or whatever, where nobody sees them, or has to interact with them, then there is little incentive for Soccer Mom Susie and Tee Time Tab to do anything to actually HELP the situation.

This is not Nerfmerica. Knees get skinned. Entropy increases. No matter how sheltered people's lives have been, eventually they must enter the Real World.

 

[rambone]

people do not have the right to be vagrants

Of course they have they right to be homeless. There is no freedom without the freedom to fail.

People do not have a right to live off the finances of others,

I thought for sure you were talking about giving a bum a 30-day all-expenses-paid trip to jail. That's a step up from living in the street eating scraps, and its paid for by taxpayers.

 

[Phil502]

Well, if he's taking a crap in your doorway while it's raining, he's obviously committing a crime. If he's just sitting on the sidewalk down the street, how is that a crime? And before you say that it may make your customers uncomfortable, I would say that if they feel uncomfortable but are not being aggressively hassled, then maybe they need to come out of their nerf world and catch a glimpse of reality.

People bellyache about the homeless, saying how it makes them uncomfortable to see them. I call BS. If people see them ENOUGH, and are really UNCOMFORTABLE just by their existence, then maybe they should get off their probably-too-wide behinds and do something to help the homeless situation. If the homeless are forced into homeless compounds or whatever, where nobody sees them, or has to interact with them, then there is little incentive for Soccer Mom Susie and Tee Time Tab to do anything to actually HELP the situation.

This is not Nerfmerica. Knees get skinned. Entropy increases. No matter how sheltered people's lives have been, eventually they must enter the Real World.

The problem is they are not just sitting at the bus stop watching busses go by. They are bothering people through interaction, they are littering, they are blocking your path and begging for money while they pick their noses in your face. They sleep on the sidewalk so you have to step over them. It's not just an ugly painting on the wall, it's an actual nuisance

If you are so against the law maybe you could go down there and help out, personally I work enough already, I do that so I don't have to sit on the sidewalk and beg from everybody that walks by, picking my nose, stinking and crapping on the curb.

 

[Bondhead88]

Of course they have they right to be homeless. There is no freedom without the freedom to fail.



I thought for sure you were talking about giving a bum a 30-day all-expenses-paid trip to jail. That's a step up from living in the street eating scraps, and its paid for by taxpayers.

I am sorry but you are wrong, people do not have a right to be vagrants.

Webster's dictionary defines vagrants as: one who has no established residence and wanders idly from place to place without lawful or visible means of support

Do people fail; yes. should we shelter people from failure; no

Do people end up homeless; yes does that give them the right to live on the street; no.

My family (4 of us) lived in a horse field in a travel trailer (6x12) for 6 months during bad times.

 

[rjstew317]

Well, if he's taking a crap in your doorway while it's raining, he's obviously committing a crime. If he's just sitting on the sidewalk down the street, how is that a crime? And before you say that it may make your customers uncomfortable, I would say that if they feel uncomfortable but are not being aggressively hassled, then maybe they need to come out of their nerf world and catch a glimpse of reality.

People bellyache about the homeless, saying how it makes them uncomfortable to see them. I call BS. If people see them ENOUGH, and are really UNCOMFORTABLE just by their existence, then maybe they should get off their probably-too-wide behinds and do something to help the homeless situation. If the homeless are forced into homeless compounds or whatever, where nobody sees them, or has to interact with them, then there is little incentive for Soccer Mom Susie and Tee Time Tab to do anything to actually HELP the situation.

This is not Nerfmerica. Knees get skinned. Entropy increases. No matter how sheltered people's lives have been, eventually they must enter the Real World.

part of the problem is that a lot of them really don't want your help, just your money so they can indulge in the poison of their choice (self medicating),i think you'll find that the majority of homeless also suffer from mental illness so a simple "dust you off and stand you up so you can get a job" won't work. while i don't think this law is the answer, i do think something has to be done