Ever leave the range due to unsafe shooters?

[gregkl]

Had a guy sweep a bunch of us at a steel challenge at Precision Gun Range. The RSO informed him of what he did but no DQ. He should have not been allowed to continue. I have never been back.

I don't mind sharing a bay with another shooter(s) at my member's only range. I just did it this past weekend since all the bays were being used. I didn't want to turn him away. I just observe them some to make sure they are being safe.

Usually I just leave anyway since they mostly want to talk...and I'm not sociable.

 

[Trapper Jim]

It's unfortunate that all attempts to educate people often fall on deaf ears because the people in question don't get that the message is for them. I think in some cases, overall self-awareness is lacking, so that people who are unsafe on the range either don't or can't understand that they are one of the problems. Sometimes they're the people who try to advise others, which is a less than optimal situation. Unconscious incompetency is a very dangerous thing on the range.

I have a modest amount of training and education under my belt and I do my best to manage risks on the range to the best of my ability. If someone notices that I am doing (or did) something unsafe, I welcome the counseling! Even on occasions when the observations or conclusions are not valid, I appreciate the vigilance and awareness.

Yep. Society will lump them all into what is considered our gun culture today. Casual Gun Handling along with antagonizing the retail store with Rambo OC costumes and 2nd amendment auditors lurking to bait the public official, and not to forget about the Death Merchants pouring millions of dollars of bonafide crap into Billy Bobs trunk of his 4dr Datsun with a little rust and no muffler.

Just trying to cover all bases.

 

[White Squirrel]

These stories make me so happy I belong to a private club (West Side Sportsmans Club). Locked gate with a chip card access and I usually either know most of the people I see there by name or recognize them even if I don't their name. The rifle range is wide open so it is a shared space, but the pistol bays are each single lanes. I have never been there when all of them are full. I feel so lucky to have been able to join such a responsible bunch of enthusiasts. I have never felt the need to leave because of a dangerous atmosphere and in fact have been blessed to talk to other shooters about their really unique and classic firearms. I have even been fortunate enough to be invited to shoot some of them.

 

[Bennettjh]

I've only left once on account of stupidity. My folks and I were at Crosley FWA. There was a group in people having a family reunion at one of the handgun bays. There was food all over the place, they were loud, and reckless with the firearms. Eating fried chicken in one hand, shooting a shotgun in the other.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I had a neighbor, retired army lifer. Grew up with guns and has a collection, on top of regular pawn shop/gun show trading. He's a stubborn know-it-all on most everything. There is no telling him anything. Gun handling for him is pointing it at you three times and himself four.

As kids we used to like to go out in a group and "squirrel hunt". We were not very quiet, hence not very effective. One among us was always swinging his shotgun past our heads, Dick Cheney style. After several warnings I let it be known that if he was going, I wasn't. I backed it up, and sure enough, he attracted the C.O.'s attention with his antics. Glad I wasn't there, and glad no one had to die for the others to begin to figure out that he really was being a dumbass in a no dumbass zone.

 

[rhino]

My girlfriend and I have left indy trading post before and did not return until the remodel with the range entrance being inside the store now instead of outside. We were in there alone at first, then entered a guy in sweatpants and flip flops. He did not have a range bag with him. He proceeded to the firing line and pulled a jframe size revolver out of the waist band of his sweat pants fired 2 times down range without a target and puts it back into his waistband. At this point we began to pack up. I'm the process of us packing up he pulls handguns out of each pocket, fires them twice each and puts them back into his pockets, then exits. All firearms were loaded before entering and never unloaded before leaving. I had never seen such stupidity in my life regarding firearms handling. We only returned due to the new range set up and luckily were the only ones in the range the entire time.

Why is that a problem? I have no comment on the rest.

 

[rhino]

Had a guy sweep a bunch of us at a steel challenge at Precision Gun Range. The RSO informed him of what he did but no DQ. He should have not been allowed to continue. I have never been back.

I don't mind sharing a bay with another shooter(s) at my member's only range. I just did it this past weekend since all the bays were being used. I didn't want to turn him away. I just observe them some to make sure they are being safe.

Usually I just leave anyway since they mostly want to talk...and I'm not sociable.

Was it a sanctioned Steel Challenge match under the auspices of USPSA, or just an informal steel match? If the latter, it's a big problem. If it's the former, it's an even bigger problem.

 

[7.62]

Left Point Blank in Carmel once for being muzzled twice by an idiot in the bay next to me. RO was nowhere to be seen at the time.

Left Indy Arms Co once due to a bay full of idiots rapid firing a .45 and yelling "break yo self fool!"

Worst story though is a sad one. My FIL is a Vietnam vet. He's been shooting his entire life. He is the one who helped get me into guns. I don't know if the army never taught him gun safety or if he has just forgotten it or become lazy...but his muzzle discipline has gotten HORRENDOUS over the past couple years. So much so that his son and I do not invite him to go shooting anymore due to us always having to watch him.

I have actually had to leave PB Carmel twice since I have been a member there. Both times I witnessed multiple safety violations in the bay next to me. This was after the RO corrected and tried to educate the shooters. Nothing against the RO he was doing the best he could and was very helpful to them but couldn't just stand there the whole time. I shoot there a bunch and that's the only two times I really had an issue.

 

[Ndavid45]

Why is that a problem? I have no comment on the rest.

Just dropping loaded firearms into his sweat pants pockets no holster and tucking one in his waist band again no holster does not seem to be safe firearms handling in my mind.

 

[rhino]

Just dropping loaded firearms into his sweat pants pockets no holster and tucking one in his waist band again no holster does not seem to be safe firearms handling in my mind.

Apparently I was unclear. I highlighted the sentence to which I referred in red:

My girlfriend and I have left indy trading post before and did not return until the remodel with the range entrance being inside the store now instead of outside. We were in there alone at first, then entered a guy in sweatpants and flip flops. He did not have a range bag with him. He proceeded to the firing line and pulled a jframe size revolver out of the waist band of his sweat pants fired 2 times down range without a target and puts it back into his waistband. At this point we began to pack up. I'm the process of us packing up he pulls handguns out of each pocket, fires them twice each and puts them back into his pockets, then exits. All firearms were loaded before entering and never unloaded before leaving. I had never seen such stupidity in my life regarding firearms handling. We only returned due to the new range set up and luckily were the only ones in the range the entire time.

To be more direct, why is loading a firearm before you arrive at a range and leaving a range with a loaded firearm a safety problem?

 

[Ndavid45]

Not just that they were loaded, the combination of loaded and the way they were handled and transported. I regularly load magazines before a trip to the range and will, if range rules allow, reload and my carry gun before leaving. If rules dont allow that I carry something else. I was taught to only take empty guns to the range unless drawing from a holster was permitted, magazines loaded but separate from the gun and whenever not shooting the gun it be placed on the shooting table muzzle down range showing open and magazine out. Everything I saw that day flew in the face of those rules.

 

[gregkl]

Was it a sanctioned Steel Challenge match under the auspices of USPSA, or just an informal steel match? If the latter, it's a big problem. If it's the former, it's an even bigger problem.

It was an informal steel match. I agree, a problem no matter how you slice it. Being DQ'd is certainly humbling and possibly embarrassing, but to keep people safe it's a small price to pay. I don't compete but if I do, there is the possibility I will one day do something that results in a DQ. I have heard of it happening to new and seasoned competitors.

My brother who grew up with guns (we all did), shot on an Army pistol team, hunted all his life got DQ'd for finger on the trigger. He was not taught in the early years or in the Army to keep his finger off the trigger at all times except when ready to shoot. He does now though.

 

[churchmouse]

It was an informal steel match. I agree, a problem no matter how you slice it. Being DQ'd is certainly humbling and possibly embarrassing, but to keep people safe it's a small price to pay. I don't compete but if I do, there is the possibility I will one day do something that results in a DQ. I have heard of it happening to new and seasoned competitors.

My brother who grew up with guns (we all did), shot on an Army pistol team, hunted all his life got DQ'd for finger on the trigger. He was not taught in the early years or in the Army to keep his finger off the trigger at all times except when ready to shoot. He does now though.

Not been DQd (yet) but I have been dinged for things. Sequence of fire etc.

 

[Trapper Jim]

He was not taught in the early years or in the Army to keep his finger off the trigger at all times except when ready to shoot. He does now though.[/QUOTE]


The psychology of “keep your finger Off” has never been as effective as “keep your finger on the frame” it has been taught for a very long time but unfortunately not learned or practiced. Go to any match this weekend and you will witness it. IDPA and USPSA have rules but SO and RO’s don’t always catch it. Array transitioning and mag changes or malfunctions with finger are obvious if you care to observe.

 

[1nderbeard]

I try to avoid ranges at any busy times. Usually I go to Deer Creek on weekday mornings, or parabellum at lunch times.
I haven't witnessed anything expressly unsafe at parabellum but I'm not comfortable being there with someone renting a gun and having explained to them how a SA firearm works. Saw a young man who clearly didn't know how it worked being explained to at the counter as I was leaving.

 

[chezuki]

Yup. The floor/both walls/all the baffles. Target clips shot to hell.

Benches.

 

[gregkl]

He was not taught in the early years or in the Army to keep his finger off the trigger at all times except when ready to shoot. He does now though.

The psychology of “keep your finger Off” has never been as effective as “keep your finger on the frame” it has been taught for a very long time but unfortunately not learned or practiced. Go to any match this weekend and you will witness it. IDPA and USPSA have rules but SO and RO’s don’t always catch it. Array transitioning and mag changes or malfunctions with finger are obvious if you care to observe.[/QUOTE]

Yup. If I understood the story he told me, it was during some kind of transition, whether it was moving or reload I don't know. They warned him a couple times then dq'd him. He was fine with it. Lesson learned.

 

[LP1]

How many of these people have you attempted to help and been successful in doing so. I have hit more negative walls than receptive. People do not want to be helped for the most part. And yes, we do try when the situation merits it.

Had an idiot touch off a 44 Mag next to my right ear on a cold range at MCF&G some years ago. Both he and the host member were complete ass hats about his obvious and most dangerous mistake. Cold range, no ears on. I am still near deaf in that ear.
How would any of you handle that one and how would you look at idiots going forward.

Solid question.

MCF&G requires wearing one's member badge in a visible manner (member is responsible for guest behavior), and the rules have a clear procedure for dealing with and reporting bad actors. If you don't feel comfortable following the procedure (which includes telling the offender to leave), then take a picture, get their names from the signup sheet, and submit a safety report. These days, the security video will probably capture it too. And if the idiot's actions cost you your hearing, I think that legal action would be an option.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

Many years ago I was shooting at Kingsbury DNR range.
It was before they initiated controls.
Everyone was down range changing targets.
One man who's target was on the very outside lane.
He finished putting up his and walked back to his shooting bench.
He immediately starting shooting.
Everyone started yelling for him to stop.
His response was,"I am shooting over here in my lane."
I packed up and walked across the street tot eh DNR office.
It was locked up.
I drove home.

 

[churchmouse]

MCF&G requires wearing one's member badge in a visible manner (member is responsible for guest behavior), and the rules have a clear procedure for dealing with and reporting bad actors. If you don't feel comfortable following the procedure (which includes telling the offender to leave), then take a picture, get their names from the signup sheet, and submit a safety report. These days, the security video will probably capture it too. And if the idiot's actions cost you your hearing, I think that legal action would be an option.

These days we would do exactly that. This was several years ago before I had a camera phone and if my phone at that time did have one I seldom used it. But good thought.

We did track them down from the log in sheet. Pretty easily done really.

That member was removed from the roles if memory serves and not just from that issue.

My hearing was not totally lost but damaged. That was the second time in my life this happened. 1st time was a friend touching of a 357 in the same way. We were pretty young and he turned out to be someone we did not shoot with anymore.

The legal chase is just not something I am up to. Proving this would have been very hard to do and trust it was dealt with.