Evidently, carrying guns doesn't prevent rape for women.

[bingley]

And of course the left chortled that if she wasn't prepared to use her unarmed skills, how would a gun have helped. Are you sure you're not doing the same here?

You're reacting to a phantom. The armed (and quite well-trained) woman did act to protect herself. It was just that the opposition was overwhelming. The point I'm making is that gun ownership can lull you into a false sense of security, which is a dangerous thing. Some people suppose a "weak enemy," and perhaps that enemy is applicable in a good number of self-defense cases. I suppose a "strong enemy," one who is determined and trained in hand-to-hand and various forms of weapons, is armed -- someone kind of like myself or what I could be, except there is more than one of them. You'd need to consider the possibility that you will fail in your defense.

As for rape and culture, see my own experiences in the previous post.

 

[Redhorse]

Law is not the same thing as culture. In fact, sometimes a law is legislated to counteract culture.

I know a number of rape victims. They found the process of coming forward and reporting the rape much worse than the rape itself. It amounted to a form of public humiliation, and in one case her classmates from school started calling her a "slut." We think that we've moved on from a culture that shames the victim; we haven't. Supposedly a large number of rapes never get reported. That would agree with my experience to an extent -- at the end, none of these women pressed charges because they couldn't take it anymore. If we intimidate and shame the rape victims into shutting up, our culture basically sides with rapists.

By the way, I also know of one armed woman who got raped. So, no, "carrying guns doesn't prevent rape for women."

Well...good for you, I know a girl who prevented being raped because she was carrying a gun.
I never said guns led to being foolproof, I just think people should have the option to defend themselves. The author in this article felt otherwise.

 

[cobber]

You're reacting to a phantom. The armed (and quite well-trained) woman did act to protect herself. It was just that the opposition was overwhelming. The point I'm making is that gun ownership can lull you into a false sense of security, which is a dangerous thing. Some people suppose a "weak enemy," and perhaps that enemy is applicable in a good number of self-defense cases. I suppose a "strong enemy," one who is determined and trained in hand-to-hand and various forms of weapons, is armed -- someone kind of like myself or what I could be, except there is more than one of them. You'd need to consider the possibility that you will fail in your defense.

As for rape and culture, see my own experiences in the previous post.

I'm not reacting to a phantom. I was responding to your post.

1. There is no "culture" of rape in America, therefore the law is against rape as malum in se, as opposed to malum prohibitum as e.g. pot laws.

2. I don't recall that the woman in that case was armed. She specifically could NOT carry on campus, so she did not have her handgun with her.

3. False sense of security? No, she knew that a gun would have been her best chance of evening the odds, but since she was prohibited from carrying, we'll never know if it would have made a difference. She had good situational awareness and was still overpowered. A "false sense of security" might have actually proven to make a genuine difference. And I disagree with your premise. A woman carrying a gun is still aware of a disparity of force between herself and potential attackers. It might be the ONLY security she has in situations. Better some measure than none at all.

4. As to your discussion about martial training, it will be useful or useless depending on the situation. And you don't get to pick the situation, it picks you. I would hazard that if push comes to shove, one would wish one had a gun. Or faster feet.

 

[bingley]

Cobber, I don't think we're communicating. The armed woman who was raped is not a "case" you know of. I'm drawing from my own personal experience. Also, nowhere did I say that guns are bad, or that one should not have defensive options (including firearms). Anyway, maybe take another look when you're more awake.

 

[Redhorse]

Cobber, I don't think we're communicating. The armed woman who was raped is not a "case" you know of. I'm drawing from my own personal experience. Also, nowhere did I say that guns are bad, or that one should not have defensive options (including firearms). Anyway, maybe take another look when you're more awake.

Ok, let's just stop arguing, I honestly wanted to hear female input on this, not from a males perspective, hence it's in the women and firearms section.

 

[Smokepole]

Ok, so I'm a week late to the dance on this but I had to add this...

Her comment "The most effective way to reduce instances of violent sexual crimes is to eradicate a culture in which rape is acceptable, even though it’s not the easiest method." Remind me again, don't we live in a country where rape is against the law? Think of it this way: when you are going camping for three days do you not plan thoroughly and equip yourself properly? When you head off for a road trip do you not gather everything you will need? Then why would anyone expect a woman or man to venture outside their castle without anything less then what they would need to face any attacker. Seems being properly trained and armed can prevent or assist during any attack. I agree that is seems she is arguing that guns are ineffective in the area of rape prevention, and her argument may have merit.

If there is a perp looking for a target and he sees a woman walking to her car with her nose in her cell phone and another woman OC'ing a Glock...I'm guessing he will pick the one who looks like a target and not pick 88GT. When facing a world of predators, don't look like prey.

Gee, that just makes TOO much sense. But I'll add to "DONT' LOOK LIKE PREY" the old "DON'T LOOK OR ACT LIKE A VICTIM"! And if you still get attacked, Shoot the criminal bastard.

Oh, and I almost forgot, Rep inbound.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I think "try it and you die" is a pretty effective way to curb such behavior.

Sure teach people to respect others. Also teach them not to steal. Oh wait.....we already do. Always have. That works perfectly.

I don't doubt you, but we don't do that as a society. We catch the little thieves, but the big thieves run rampant in our country. Heck, when they are about to go under, we have to hand over our tax dollars to rescue them. As for respecting one another, have you heard pop music or seen a TV show lately?

Here is a critical point. Since our culture bought in to Joseph Fletcher's Situational Ethics, we no longer can say the anything is always wrong or evil. Thus, theft, fraud, deceit, rape, murder, etc. are only wrong if the circumstances are suitable. In some situations, these actions are not wrong, but "the right ting to do."

As a respected INGO member stated above, when you destroy the foundations of culture the culture fails.

 

[JetGirl]

The article's real point that we should aim for a total reduction of violence in society is a valid one.

Total reduction? In all of our society? Well right on! Bring it on! Because government is violence. Violence is, to some degree, government. Whatever kind of restraining or whatever governing you wish to do, you have to impose force on something. Total reduction of government...I'm down!

As for the article:

When it comes to prevention of rape, the easy solution is to carry a gun, but that only works for the short-term.

True. You have to reload at some point.

Even if women are armed and have proper training, it doesn’t necessarily guarantee safety.

True. Some guns (like revolvers) don't have safeties.

Rape breaks the bond of trust between two people

And wouldn't it just **** you right off if you lost trust in your rapist? I think I'd need therapy for that.

Quigley failed to cite a single case proving her theory that guns prevent rape.

That's because we don't know if the act that was stopped was labeled something else...torture, murder, etc.
How about just stating the cases where guns prevented personal bodily harm or death. I'm totally fine with it being classified under that umbrella of a label.

"They’re talking on their cellphones or texting, totally unaware of what’s going on. It’s part of the reason why people get themselves into trouble.” There are two things wrong with this statement. First, Quigley blames the victim for bringing about an act of sexual violence.

No, DipPoop, she did not blame the victim for bringing it about. She pointed out that they are situationally UNaware and thus more appealing as a target.

Altering the mindset of the next generation to respect women is the only permanent way to reduce violent sexual acts.

I'm sure this will happen faster and faster with the way "tolerance" of Sharia Law is being crammed down our throats.

Just my own parting thoughts here... nobody ever raped a .45 at 900fps. Just sayin'.

 

[OkieGirl]

I think any woman needs to have as much on her side to defend against an attack, whether it's a firearm, blade, self defense training, a really bad attitude, etc... She still may not be able to fend off a determined attacker but will put up one hell of a fight. In most self defense training for women they teach that the woman has to determine NOW whether they will fight or submit. Their mindset is the most effective weapon they can arm themselves with.

Our country has legislated against rape and violent attacks and yet we have elected officials who wish to define shades of rape. The term "forcible rape" just confounds me, by definition "rape" is not consentual. Our ability to enforce the laws is where our legal system is impotent. The victim of rape becomes victimized again in the collection of evidence (entirely necessary to prove a case in a court of law), again in the social stigma that falls on her, and again when they find that a convicted rapist will likely serve less time than it takes for her scars to heal. MOST women who have survived this will not report it. They know far too well that the process will not end well for them and they would rather suffer quietly then be publically humiliated. I do not condone violence but there is a point where fathers, friends, husbands and brothers should have the freedom to step in and do what the law cannot. That, I believe, would create a stronger social pull to prevent this than laws and courts.

 

[Hohn]

We used to do that but you and your fellow travellers called it "chauvinism" and "outdated".

When you crumble the cake of custom you accept the responsibility for what replaces it.

It takes a special kind of naivete/stupidity/arrogance to believe that the long term solution for rape is something that hasn't worked in all of recorded human history. You can't educate away evil or mental illness.

But hey, she's an immigrant undergrad student, who already has all the answers to life figured out.

 

[Hohn]

JetGirl, your post is an INGO Hall Of Fame post if there ever was one.

 

[JetGirl]

JetGirl, your post is an INGO Hall Of Fame post if there ever was one.

Thanks!

 

[cobber]

Cobber, I don't think we're communicating. The armed woman who was raped is not a "case" you know of. I'm drawing from my own personal experience. Also, nowhere did I say that guns are bad, or that one should not have defensive options (including firearms). Anyway, maybe take another look when you're more awake.

I was quite awake thanks.

Whatever. You win.

 

[Redhorse]

Total reduction? In all of our society? Well right on! Bring it on! Because government is violence. Violence is, to some degree, government. Whatever kind of restraining or whatever governing you wish to do, you have to impose force on something. Total reduction of government...I'm down!

As for the article:


True. You have to reload at some point.


True. Some guns (like revolvers) don't have safeties.


And wouldn't it just **** you right off if you lost trust in your rapist? I think I'd need therapy for that.


That's because we don't know if the act that was stopped was labeled something else...torture, murder, etc.
How about just stating the cases where guns prevented personal bodily harm or death. I'm totally fine with it being classified under that umbrella of a label.


No, DipPoop, she did not blame the victim for bringing it about. She pointed out that they are situationally UNaware and thus more appealing as a target.


I'm sure this will happen faster and faster with the way "tolerance" of Sharia Law is being crammed down our throats.

Just my own parting thoughts here... nobody ever raped a .45 at 900fps. Just sayin'.

Thank you jetgirl, I mean thanks. A lot of guys have been commenting on this with only a couple of women posting their views and I wanted to know what a woman thought of this foreigner girls idea that women don't need guns for self defense. Good post

 

[bingley]

I think any woman needs to have as much on her side to defend against an attack, whether it's a firearm, blade, self defense training, a really bad attitude, etc... She still may not be able to fend off a determined attacker but will put up one hell of a fight. In most self defense training for women they teach that the woman has to determine NOW whether they will fight or submit. Their mindset is the most effective weapon they can arm themselves with.

Our country has legislated against rape and violent attacks and yet we have elected officials who wish to define shades of rape. The term "forcible rape" just confounds me, by definition "rape" is not consentual. Our ability to enforce the laws is where our legal system is impotent. The victim of rape becomes victimized again in the collection of evidence (entirely necessary to prove a case in a court of law), again in the social stigma that falls on her, and again when they find that a convicted rapist will likely serve less time than it takes for her scars to heal. MOST women who have survived this will not report it. They know far too well that the process will not end well for them and they would rather suffer quietly then be publically humiliated. I do not condone violence but there is a point where fathers, friends, husbands and brothers should have the freedom to step in and do what the law cannot. That, I believe, would create a stronger social pull to prevent this than laws and courts.

 

[RockofStrength]

Total reduction? In all of our society? Well right on! Bring it on! Because government is violence. Violence is, to some degree, government. Whatever kind of restraining or whatever governing you wish to do, you have to impose force on something. Total reduction of government...I'm down!

As for the article:


True. You have to reload at some point.


True. Some guns (like revolvers) don't have safeties.


And wouldn't it just **** you right off if you lost trust in your rapist? I think I'd need therapy for that.


That's because we don't know if the act that was stopped was labeled something else...torture, murder, etc.
How about just stating the cases where guns prevented personal bodily harm or death. I'm totally fine with it being classified under that umbrella of a label.


No, DipPoop, she did not blame the victim for bringing it about. She pointed out that they are situationally UNaware and thus more appealing as a target.


I'm sure this will happen faster and faster with the way "tolerance" of Sharia Law is being crammed down our throats.

Just my own parting thoughts here... nobody ever raped a .45 at 900fps. Just sayin'.

 

[Hornett]

The article is just more of this thought process.
Wow
[video=youtube_share;Z_TqaUxqPPY]http://youtu.be/Z_TqaUxqPPY[/video]

 

[tbone]

as do i,i strongly believe you have the right as a free person to defend and protect yourself and your loved ones.myself being oldskool i believe i have the duty to do so.i i think most husbands,fathers feel the same.at least i hope so. happy trails

 

[ConcealedCarryCutie]

Ok, let's just stop arguing, I honestly wanted to hear female input on this, not from a males perspective, hence it's in the women and firearms section.

wow, some good stuff on here...I'm not sure what i have to say is really new to the conversation, but here is my opinion. its ridiculous to think we can stop rape by just teaching the future generation not to do it...my parents taught me to always tell the truth...but guess what, I've told lies before no matter what they said. i was a good kid, had good parents, so they failed? each grown up person is going to make their own choices regardless of upbringing. good upbringing helps, but its not to solution to this problem.

that being said, women do need to defend themselves. pepper spray, tasers, knifes, long finger nails, or a gun, its up to each women to choose. There are 2 separate issues now, carrying a gun, and preventing rape, because i don't carry my gun everyday and think "i hope somebody doesn't try to rape me today". i carry it for whatever situation i may need it for, for my own protection or others. i know i may not be able to use my weapon if i am attacked. i hope i would get the chance. i keep a round in the chamber so it would only take one hand and a few seconds, but that doesn't guarantee anything.

last thing. its true many rape cases happen by people the victim knows or trusts. if a woman is carrying a gun, she may not use it. what if her abuser is family? she may think its better to let it happen, and deal with it, then to kill grandpa or whatever "dear family member" it may be. I have been fortunate to not have to choose because i haven't ever been put in that situation, but if i was, i don't know what I would do. if a woman chose to fire her weapon, what would happen then? how many people would look down on her for the "crime" she committed to defend herself? what if she felt obligated to attend the funeral? what would people say? i can only imagine the thought trains that must go through some of these victim's head. The same reason she wouldn't defend herself may be the same reason she doesn't want to go to the police for.
also...if she doesn't choose to use her weapon, there is a whole other layer of feelings because she is "letting" it happen?....phew....sad stuff, rape is a horrible thing, and if i ever have a chance to prevent it for me or another, with my gun or not i'll do what i can.

guns aren't the solution either, just another piece of this crime puzzle. we live in a corrupt world, and all we can do is try to do what we can do individually, every day to reduce the evil we come across. rape may or may not be the evil, and guns, may or may not be the right answer, we just have to do what we think is right, and brace ourselves for whatever may come.