Fight to Keep A-10 Warthog in Air Force Inventory Reaches End Game

[Hawkeye]

Part of the problem is they aren't sexy enough for the AF 4-stars. They like supersonic air superiority, not flying in the mud and weeds ground attack. Teh latter might have got them beers but the former is what got them ...

IF I recall the AF tried to retire the A10 following Desert Storm, too. Replacing it with a version of the F16.

 

[JettaKnight]

Every time they try to replace it with something sexy, they realize they can't live without it. I would think the only thing that could fulfill it's mission would be drones, but they could never possibly have the same amount of firepower.

The AF should just embrace its ugliness.

 

[9mmfan]

The AF should get out of CAS altogether and let the Army handle it. Give the A -10's to them and start looking for an updated version of it.

 

[JAH]

In trials during the late 1980s the ground attack capabilities of the F-16 were judged as close to that of the A-10, but lacked the loiter time and low speed/low altitude characteristics to match the venerable Warthog. Given what we've learned about the nature of close air support on the battlefield in the wars since then, I'd say keeping it would have been a no brainer. It's cheap to make, maintain, and fly.

Sorry I work with this great aircraft, they have not made it since the early 80's therefore the tooling to make it is gone, parts have to come from boneyard pulls it is not cheap to maintain, and it is just as expensive to fly in the current fiscal arena. Even the Army has stated that it can get along with other airframes working CAS. Yes the gun is the big player in the equation but that gun also has a tendency to vibrate excessively and break parts over time. my

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I love the Warthog. I can only imagine how awesome it would be to sit in that titanium tub with that Gatling buzzing under your butt.

A bad ass ride for sure.

 

[actaeon277]

Sorry I work with this great aircraft, they have not made it since the early 80's therefore the tooling to make it is gone, parts have to come from boneyard pulls it is not cheap to maintain, and it is just as expensive to fly in the current fiscal arena. Even the Army has stated that it can get along with other airframes working CAS. Yes the gun is the big player in the equation but that gun also has a tendency to vibrate excessively and break parts over time. my

If they could create it in the 80s, then can't it be recreated today?
Were they so much smarter then, that we can't reinvent?

 

[futurefrogman]

I think it's sad. It has been a childhood dream of mine for years to get to fly one of those. Then again, I guess the military has bigger things to worry about.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Think about an unmanned CAS drone that's a hybrid of the Apache helo and the Warthog... And perhaps...

You'd get a device similar to the model pictured above.

Bring on the drone wars???

ETA: Also - my wife's ex step grandfather (her ex step mom's dad...) lives about 10 miles south of Ft. Wayne Int'l airport. The Warthogs out of the Ft. Wayne Air Guard unit fly over his farm all the time!

 

[JAH]

If they could create it in the 80s, then can't it be recreated today?
Were they so much smarter then, that we can't reinvent?

Recreate yes it could be, I believe that yes they could do that and make it much better. The problem then is you still have a platform that is not multi mission capable.
Therefore you do not have the percieved "bang for the buck" in other words not fiscally cost effective. The main issue it that the tooling was destroyed if i remember correctly. that is why Boing had to recreate a new wing assembly from scratch for the airframes requiring them, again fiscally prohibitive. Again I love the airframe I served in the army with them overhead and worked with them, the best of both worlds.

 

[actaeon277]

Multi mission capable is what kills a lot of projects. Do a lot of things badly instead of one thing well.

 

[Hohn]

Here's a story of Capt. Kim Campbell. She received a Distinguished Flying Cross in 2003 for her efforts against the Iraq Republican Guard. Her plan was shot to hell.

But, she brought it back safe.

Badass of the Week: Captain Kim Campbell

She was the cadet Wing Commander my freshman year at the Blue Zoo. She is all that. Crazy smart too. Thurgood Marshall scholarship and all that.

 

[Hohn]

Multi mission capable is what kills a lot of projects. Do a lot of things badly instead of one thing well.

*cough* joint strike fighter. *cough*

 

[9mmfan]

*cough* joint strike fighter. *cough*

Nah, what are you thinking! Cut the F-22, the absolute best fighter in the world and build the F-35 which probably won't be as capable as the F-15 was.

 

[actaeon277]

Don't forget the navy's littoral ship.

 

[.452browning]

I say hand them over to the army and marines for close air support. My brother said that in afghanistan if they called in A10's the enemy didn't show themselves for 3 days.

 

[CQB]

Two words, BORDER PATROL.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I too love the A-10, but it's time for the old workhorse to be retired in a place of honor right with other classic planes. Drones are the way to go... well, until Skynet starts to get smart.

 

[actaeon277]

I too love the A-10, but it's time for the old workhorse to be retired in a place of honor right with other classic planes. Drones are the way to go... well, until Skynet starts to get smart.

And what happens if we fight a competent opponent? One with electronic warfare capabilities,.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And what happens if we fight a competent opponent? One with electronic warfare capabilities,.

I don't think that really applies to the retirement of the warthog, in favor of attack drones. Let's be honest with ourselves for a moment. The A-10 isn't a platform that belongs in the "big show," against opponents with competent electronic warfare capabilities (EWCs). Its revised role has been to harass and rain destruction down on 2nd or 3rd tier militaries. Nations that can pull off EW (i.e. Russia, China, Japan, India) would deal with A-10 fairly easily, as they would drones. For an A-10 to shine, air superiority would have to established. And with the countries I mentioned, that's not exactly a given. So if anything, the A-10 should remain in it's current "B-team" role; though given it's a manned platform, I'd prefer drones taking on the risks that they can, IMO, do better than the A-10, but with no threat to life.

 

[avboiler11]

The A-10 isn't a platform that belongs in the "big show," against opponents with competent electronic warfare capabilities (EWCs).

That is true of ANY close air support aircraft, be it fixed or rotary wing.

Given than the A-10 is way less electronic than most 4Gen+ tactical aircraft, I'd say electronic warfare would have a less appreciable impact on it than other types. Furthermore, the A-10 was designed to operate in a high-threat environment as evidenced by its demonstrated survivability.

The A-10 may not be the ideal situation, but I have doubts that any RPA could be as effective in the CAS role as a manned aircraft.