Firearms on School Property SB0319

[jedi]

As for it not being a big enough step... you must remember that these are politicians. Gun laws are things that are usually approached very carefully. Especially when its a law where people are going to be crying "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!"

I would rather they take much bigger steps now that they have the numbers. Think ObamaCare. They rammed that thru cause they knew they had the numbers and it would be close to impossible to ever repeal.

Same here take the freaking hail mary pass and go for the end zone.

However revance I will write a letter to my indiana reps to tell them I want them to support this bill. It's not what I want (does not go far enough) but I'll get on the band wagon.


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[Bill of Rights]

I will definitely have to look that up. I have never heard that to be the case and if so, would render the recent talks with the administration at Purdue and IU moot. Now, there may be another statute that covers college campuses separately, but I will look when I get a chance. So, I won't muddy the waters by bringing this discussion to the college level until I'm sure they are separate matters.

I'll save you the trouble, Que.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

There is no other provision I've ever seen mentioned on here in the last three years that criminalizes possession of a firearm on a college campus. I myself have been on a couple of those campuses armed. I know that at least one campus has a "persona non grata" list on which people are placed when they are not welcome on the campus any longer. It would be far easier to simply arrest them, but instead, they tell them to leave and if they refuse, do so for criminal trespass.

As someone else posted, though, if the college campus has a childcare or k-12 school on the premises, this might be interpreted differently, so do use caution and as always, standard disclaimers apply: IANAL, TINLA.

If you (generic "you") need a legal opinion, my recommendation is to seek one out and hire him/her to give that opinion.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[VERT]

This proposal would be a huge deal for me. With two kids I find myself in school parking lots all the time.

 

[irishfan]

I'll save you the trouble, Que.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

There is no other provision I've ever seen mentioned on here in the last three years that criminalizes possession of a firearm on a college campus. I myself have been on a couple of those campuses armed. I know that at least one campus has a "persona non grata" list on which people are placed when they are not welcome on the campus any longer. It would be far easier to simply arrest them, but instead, they tell them to leave and if they refuse, do so for criminal trespass.

As someone else posted, though, if the college campus has a childcare or k-12 school on the premises, this might be interpreted differently, so do use caution and as always, standard disclaimers apply: IANAL, TINLA.

If you (generic "you") need a legal opinion, my recommendation is to seek one out and hire him/her to give that opinion.

Blessings,
Bill

BOR, as I read it that would make a good portion of Ball State University in a "go to jail zone" if you were carrying. The reason I say that is they have Muncie Burris elementary and high school as well as The Academy high school. Also, there is a day care/intern program on the backside of campus where preschool aged children are everyday. I wonder how the law applies to a BSU student who walks in front of Muncie Burris High School on his way home from his college classes?

 

[sparky241]

man i would love to see this go thru

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bill, I get everything you said. However, not being one who leans to the left nor right, I understand that -- supposedly -- those who are currently in the majority are more supportive of our rights as citizens. At least those are the sentiments that have been proffered on this forum. If they (Republicans) are in charge, why take baby steps? They have the votes to give us the ability to carry our guns anywhere we desire as long as we are in possession of the LTCH.

If they want to take baby steps, I would prefer they take the baby step of giving me my rights, THEN work on alleviating citizens of the necessity to purchase the LTCH. After all, aren't they (Republicans) supposed to be the friends of the 2A?

Now, I am not sure who authored this proposed amendment, but if it was a Democrat, I would say great move forward. However, if it was a Republican, I say, FAIL.

Why? The simple answer is that most of our legislators are not "gun people". They may call themselves "pro-2A", but we all know that that means they support gun rights "with restrictions". Most of them have fallen into acceptance of the paradigm that "gunz in skoolz r bad, mmkay?" but that it's OK if the person carrying one also wears a badge. Changing that paradigm does not happen in a flash; those legislators will need to see evidence-based proof that no harm will come of a decision like this. It's difficult to do so in light of the fact that AZ just passed Constitutional Carry last year and had the Giffords shooting a scant few months later, though the evidence shown by Texas with the absence of problems created by refusing to force CHL holders to be screened to enter their state Capitol building and by Utah with their law in place for over eight years removing the prohibition on CFP holders carrying at schools both help matters well. We need to replace legislators that are actively anti-gun, such as Sen. Tom Wyss and we need to educate pro-2A legislators who don't see the simple fact- and logic-based conclusions we do here.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

BOR, as I read it that would make a good portion of Ball State University in a "go to jail zone" if you were carrying. The reason I say that is they have Muncie Burris elementary and high school as well as The Academy high school. Also, there is a day care/intern program on the backside of campus where preschool aged children are everyday. I wonder how the law applies to a BSU student who walks in front of Muncie Burris High School on his way home from his college classes?

I'm not sure. I'd like to think that the campus of the high school would be considered a separate entity, such that you might be able to walk down the sidewalk or street though not across the (MBHS) grounds, but if the MBHS is on the campus of BSU, I can see how the latter could be considered "school property" as well. This is one of those situations I'll defer to someone with a J.D. degree.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[dbd870]

A step in the right direction.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Que as a COLLEGE student you can LEGALLY have your gun on you on campus as well as locking it in your car, this law has nothing to do with colleges as according to the IC they are not schools

100% correct! College campus carry may violate your college's rules, but not IC at this time.

 

[RockCreekRelics]

I suppose this is a step in the right direction but is by no means even close to being enough. You will still be considered a criminal albeit a lesser criminal for exercising your constitutional right to carry. I personally am not a fan of compromise when it comes to our constitutional rights but realize that wether I like it or not I have to bend a little to move forward. This is just not enough of a forward push though.

I would be much more comfortable for instance if this was a bill that allowed LTCH holders to carry in our childrens schools only after taking an in-depth safety training course and agreeing to keep the firearm concealed. Not ideal of course but still it's a compromise that gets us somewhere. As of now if I get out of my vehicle to assist one of my children for any reason on school grounds I become a criminal and that is unacceptable. So instead of making a hasty decision and writing to support this bill I will have to think a bit longer. It may just be better to contact them and tell them to bring something real to the table instead of expecting us to beg for the crumbs that fall from it.

 

[irishfan]

I'm not sure. I'd like to think that the campus of the high school would be considered a separate entity, such that you might be able to walk down the sidewalk or street though not across the (MBHS) grounds, but if the MBHS is on the campus of BSU, I can see how the latter could be considered "school property" as well. This is one of those situations I'll defer to someone with a J.D. degree.

Blessings,
Bill

That is a question I have wondered ever since I was at BSU. The Academy and Burris both are part of the university I believe. Muncie Burris is a "laboratory" school and anyone who works for BSU can send their kids there which makes me think it is affiliated. I did not want to get my brain thinking today but now its spinning

 

[jedi]

We need to replace legislators that are actively anti-gun, such as Sen. Tom Wyss and we need to educate pro-2A legislators who don't see the simple fact- and logic-based conclusions we do here.

Blessings,
Bill

BoR be careful on your words. The media will say you are advocating violence like S. Palin ya know. One should have said....

We need to use the election process to vote in a legislator that will use common sense when dealing with gun laws.

 

[Que]

BOR, as I read it that would make a good portion of Ball State University in a "go to jail zone" if you were carrying. The reason I say that is they have Muncie Burris elementary and high school as well as The Academy high school. Also, there is a day care/intern program on the backside of campus where preschool aged children are everyday. I wonder how the law applies to a BSU student who walks in front of Muncie Burris High School on his way home from his college classes?

One of the daycare's on the Bloomington campus is down the street from campus. High school students are always here for classes, as well. So, anyone driving through this campus and is stopped close to the daycare, I feel sorry for them if the officer is having a bad day.

I always have to go back to what I was taught five years ago: Laws are not made for the people who must abide by them, but laws are made for the people who make the law.

 

[irishfan]

One of the daycare's on the Bloomington campus is down the street from campus. High school students are always here for classes, as well. So, anyone driving through this campus and is stopped close to the daycare, I feel sorry for them if the officer is having a bad day.

I always have to go back to what I was taught five years ago: Laws are not made for the people who must abide by them, but laws are made for the people who make the law.

So true! How long is it going to take you to get that degree Que? We need somebody with a level head moving up the legal ladder.

 

[boileralum]

nvm, found what I thought I read and was incorrect.

 

[Trevlan]

So, basically, a person without a license is charged with a misdemeanor instead of a felony? How is this better for us? What am I missing?

I was going to ask the same question. Law seems too leniant for people who posses firearms illegally. Specially near schools.

 

[jedi]

I was going to ask the same question. Law seems too leniant for people who posses firearms illegally. Specially near schools.

So you want stricter gun laws for guns near schools?

 

[Trevlan]

So you want stricter gun laws for guns near schools?

I want the law to benefit responsible people who conceal carry their firearms. People who bring illegal guns on campus/school grounds, should get a heafty sentence. I bet you a dollar, Columbine wouldn't have gone down like that if responsible adults had the ability to carry at that school.

Conceal carry, shouldn't have restrictions. The permit is given to those deemed responsible citizens, who use good judgement.

Do you go to church without your piece?

 

[MACHINEGUN]

So you want stricter gun laws for guns near schools?

So you want people carrying firearms around your children while at school who aren't licensed to do so?

 

[jedi]

I want the law to benefit responsible people who conceal carry their firearms. People who bring illegal guns on campus/school grounds, should get a heafty sentence. I bet you a dollar, Columbine wouldn't have gone down like that if responsible adults had the ability to carry at that school.

This law won't affect the heavy sentence of someone bringing a gun to school "illegaly" (ie. without having a LTCH). Carrying a handgun without an LTCH is still a crime in Indiana.

Note that this law also won't help in your case of Columbine since you are still noting going to have your handgun near you while on school property. You will be inside the building and your gun will be locked in your car out of sight.

Conceal carry, shouldn't have restrictions. The permit is given to those deemed responsible citizens, who use good judgement.

Do you go to church without your piece?

More like carry period (open or conceled) should have no restrictions period! It's in the Bill of Rights in PLAIN ENGLISH!

Sadly I do have to go to church without a piece becuase the church I belong to sits on the same property as the school with the same name. As such it's a "school zone".

In fact I have to park on the opposite side of the street when I leave "betty" in the car to attend church.