fireplace insert sales and installation

[BobDaniels]

If you are anywhere close to surrounding Lafayette area, I would give a A fires Place a call.
435 Farabee Dr, Lafayette, IN 47905 · (765) 446-9495

I spoke with them yesterday and they seem very knowledgeable. Only problem is they are scheduled out until February!

I just bought a regency h2100 insert. If u are with REMC for electric (I'm with Johnson county)
you can get a 1500 dollar rebate on swapping out your old unit or even if you
just have a fireplace insert like I do. I bought it from economy fireplace in Elletsville
looks like a great little unit and has good reviews.

We are with Boone REMC, I will check with them on rebates, Thank you!

I've had the Quadrafire in the house sine it was built in 2010, furnace never runs, 3200 feet of living space. Purchased it from Economy Fireplace in Elletsville. Only issue I can think of is that you have to split your wood down to what I call stovewood size, about the length and thickness of my forearm.

Sorry, I don't see a fireplace in that pic!

I used them a few years back and got a Jotul 450 Kennebec.
Other than mine being the 2 door older model, this is what I got and it's great.
It full and easy control of the combustion air with a simple lever on the front.

Jøtul C 450 Kennebec - Fireplace Inserts - Products | Jøtul

I've heard lots of good things about the Jotul. I think the 450 might be too small for our place but the 550 just about right. They are a bit spendy.

I've got a Pacific Energy Vista insert that I LOVE!!!!! The guy who installed it is out of biz, so now I use RT's Fireplace shop (Plainfield) for anything I need-which I will say has only been advise so far. Props to PE!

I sweep my own liner every year and burn good dry wood which is the key with these new EPA stoves. Do that, and you wont need maintenance from a pro.

Instead of hearth.com, try here Firewood Hoarder's Club Forums. I used to be on hearth, so I can DEFINETLY say this place is where an INGO guy wants to be--this FHC place was started because the mods on hearth were monitoring PM's and such. Deleting posts for no reason, etc. No gun talk on hearth either...not even a pic in an avatar! ......a quick banhammer will follow.

I was at RT's today and spent some time with Ron. I am leaning their direction.

I agree...a CAT stove isn't for everyone. ESPECIALLY if you aren't into seasoning split and stacked wood for a year+ minimum. To get the full benefits of a CAT, wood has to be 20% moisture or under. Preferably under. Not to mention, replacing them costs $. Don't get me wrong, an EPA stove likes dry wood too, but its not gonna get all jacked up if your wood isn't primo.

My insert has a blower which is a MUST if you ask me. It makes all the difference in the world. I can see on a free standing stove where it may not bee AS much of a need/ benefit but since the insert is crammed into a fireplace, a blower is needed to get the heat out into the room, instead of up the chase and chimney.

I don't see a CAT stove in my future but I understand they put out some serious heat and are very efficient. I do not want the added maintenance as well as dealing with the particulars of the burn style.

You're correct, a blower is a must.

 

[BobDaniels]

The QuadraFire will do a LITTLE convection heating. I'll probably pick up one of those little hear-powered fans to move a little air w/o electricity. I'll tell you though, once the brick fireplace warms up, the blower isn't needed at all. We choke the fire down to the minimum.

The only thing I don't like about the QuadraFire is the location of the "exhaust" to the flue. It is at the front of the firebox. I know that it helps keep the glass clean, but it also lets a lot of smoke into the room when opening the door. Other manufacturers do the same thing, though. The work-around is to keep the fire pretty hot before you open the door, too let it draw cooler air from the room when you SLOWLY open the door up.

I suppose I should post a pic:

That looks like a nice setup. I don't have much insert experience but I know what you mean about blowing smoke into the room when opening the door. I believe they call the design of the exhaust "air wash" to help prevent the glass from getting smokey and pretty much all of the manufactures use the same system. Thats a good tip on helping to prevent smoking out the room.

 

[remauto1187]

I just cant seem to talk myself into a log burning fireplace. I just dont feel like messing with cutting/buying/ splitting firewood. I guess it has its place in the hearts of some people but me I value my time and my time is money. So I currently am running a wood pellet stove (Pelpro PP60). When I finish building my new house next year I will be running a fireplace insert wood pellet stove and I will probably go with the Pelpro brand unless something jumps out that ends up being "better". I dont know what firewood is running but 40lb bags of pellets run anywhere from $3.89-$5.00. My pelpro will burn anywhere from a half bag to 1.5 bags per day depending on what the thermostat is set on and my house is about as sealed up and efficient as a piece of swiss cheese. I can just imagine how well the stoves will do when the new house is built and is air tight, insulated above min standards and the furnace fan on auto which circulates the pellet stoves heat around more evenly.

 

[edporch]

-Snip-

I've heard lots of good things about the Jotul. I think the 450 might be too small for our place but the 550 just about right. They are a bit spendy.

-Snip-

No, it wasn't cheap, but it's well built and Jotul has been around since 1850.
I've had no regrets for buying it as it does just what I need well.

I wanted a 550, but it wouldn't have fit without cutting my firebox, and I wanted something that would fit without that in case it was ever removed.

And sure enough it was, when I sold my house in April.
I removed it and the fireplace is back to where it was without any damage.

Now I just need another fireplace to install it in.

 

[eldirector]

I've burnt less than 1/2 rick of wood in a month. During the coldest part of the year, that may go up to a full rick in a month (if I have to run the stove full-out 24x7). Wood ranges from about $55 a rick (split, not well seasoned) to $80 (split very well, and nice and dry). Add another $20 to have it delivered (I pick it up myself).

Of course, that's if you can't get it for just the cost of your time. I'm starting to hit up my neighbors to remove their dead/dying trees. There are several cords worth of "free" wood right next door, and I could use the exercise. Though, I may pay their teenage sons to stack it for me. I'll cut and split.

We didn't buy the woodstove JUST for the savings. It also provides heat (and even cooking, in a pinch) during power outages. A warm wood fire is just..... nice..... too.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I just cant seem to talk myself into a log burning fireplace. I just dont feel like messing with cutting/buying/ splitting firewood. I guess it has its place in the hearts of some people but me I value my time and my time is money. So I currently am running a wood pellet stove (Pelpro PP60). When I finish building my new house next year I will be running a fireplace insert wood pellet stove and I will probably go with the Pelpro brand unless something jumps out that ends up being "better". I dont know what firewood is running but 40lb bags of pellets run anywhere from $3.89-$5.00. My pelpro will burn anywhere from a half bag to 1.5 bags per day depending on what the thermostat is set on and my house is about as sealed up and efficient as a piece of swiss cheese. I can just imagine how well the stoves will do when the new house is built and is air tight, insulated above min standards and the furnace fan on auto which circulates the pellet stoves heat around more evenly.

That's fine, to each his own... but have you ever heard my theory of time? It pretty much says your time isn't worth squat unless you put yourself to work at another job (or overtime at your current job) earning extra money to pay for XYZ item that you're trying to justify not spending your time on. For me, I spend a MAX of 40 hours per year cutting, splitting, stacking wood. I can't get another job to help pay for wood, and that is time that I would otherwise be trying to do things at home or be lazy. My time is worth very close to NOTHING.

If you want to actually compare firewood costs vs other methods of heating, hearth.com has a great calculator tool to use... but to put it in perspective, to even break even with burning wood pellets you have to be spending a SIGNIFICANT amount of money per cord of wood, and around me, firewood is super cheap if you don't mind buying it a couple years in advance to let it fully season (and most of the sellers are pretty flaky individuals as well). For me, cutting & splitting wood, although hard on my body, is good for my mind. I love being in the woods, I find it almost therepeutic when I'm cutting wood. My home heating expenses are also VERY low... if I amortize my stoves, saws, and other supplies over a 25 year life-span and then figure my annual costs (fuel oil etc) I heat my ENTIRE home for less than $100/year. If I bought wood locally I could heat for around $400/year...

There are also other reasons to not choose pellets. From what I've heard they are dusty and over the course of a winter burning them you'll notice the dust buildup in the area from pouring bags into the hopper. The pellet stoves also require power to run, my heat system can function 100% with no electrical input.

Like I said, everybody has their preference, and I'm not trying to say you are wrong or anything. Just pointing out that burning cordwood still appeals to people because it offers many advantages over a pellet stove. Likewise, pellet stoves offer advantages over burning cordwood too.

 

[BobDaniels]

SNIP

my house is about as sealed up and efficient as a piece of swiss cheese. I can just imagine how well the stoves will do when the new house is built and is air tight, insulated above min standards and the furnace fan on auto which circulates the pellet stoves heat around more evenly.

For a well sealed house, you will need a vent to bring in outside air, similar to the high efficiency gas furnaces.

No, it wasn't cheap, but it's well built and Jotul has been around since 1850.
I've had no regrets for buying it as it does just what I need well. My fireplace opening is rather large and will fit darn near any insert. Too bad my wallet won't allow that to happen!

I wanted a 550, but it wouldn't have fit without cutting my firebox, and I wanted something that would fit without that in case it was ever removed.

And sure enough it was, when I sold my house in April.
I removed it and the fireplace is back to where it was without any damage.

Now I just need another fireplace to install it in.

Have insert, will travel!

To me it is crazy how much heat comes out of that small little firebox. My fireplace opening is rather large and will take about any insert. Too bad my wallet can't accomadate such an insert!

 

[CountryBoy19]

For a well sealed house, you will need a vent to bring in outside air, similar to the high efficiency gas furnaces.

A LOT of modern stoves now at least have an optional Outside Air intake Kit (OAK), some it is mandatory (mine was mandatory) for that reason. IMHO, if your stove offer and OAK, get it, there is a small efficiency increase, and it also reduces cool spots in the extremeties of your home...

 

[Cameramonkey]

A LOT of modern stoves now at least have an optional Outside Air intake Kit (OAK), some it is mandatory (mine was mandatory) for that reason. IMHO, if your stove offer and OAK, get it, there is a small efficiency increase, and it also reduces cool spots in the extremeties of your home...

hmmm... not everyone agrees.

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed

 

[lizerdking]

hmmm... not everyone agrees.

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed

Thanks for the read on that...



I just finished putting in a free standing stove, it's a Lopi Endeavor, non cat epa stove. I did the install myself, with a good price on the stove all in with hearth materials I think we paid around 4k. The Class A pipe adds up QUICK.

We're only a couple weeks into the heating season here, but so far the wife and I are in love with wood heat. I didn't have time to get much wood split at the start of the season and had to resort to ordering some seasoned wood. The first delivery wasn't as seasoned as the seller claimed, the second seller turned out to be a bit more honest. The price was good enough on the first load I plan on letting it sit till next winter, no big deal.

Between delivery and what I split early spring, I have about a cord and a half... I know it's not going to be enough to heat the entire house all winter, I'm just hoping it's enough to let us skip paying the winter fill rates on propane this year. I'm betting we'll make it till Feb till I have to turn the LP on, and that should get us till spring for a fill. At least we won't be paying 5.00 a gallon for LP during a "shortage" again this year. I'll find someone to bring me wood or burn the moist stuff if it comes down to that.

 

[Leadeye]

Access to wood is a big part of the decision, I live in the woods so that was an easy one.

 

[CountryBoy19]

hmmm... not everyone agrees.

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed

I read it... they are using some "tricky language" to make OAKs look bad.

Their number 1 point about indirect OAKs is true, I don't know anybody that uses one or any stove manufacturer today that even recommends them. But that is a moot point, my above comment was in regard to direct OAKs, in which they go into for point 2.

For point 2 (direct OAKs) their entire premise is ridiculous. They say OAKs were introduced to prevent situations where a negative pressure indoors could cause a back-draft that fills the room with smoke. And because an OAK cannot always prevent this, they are bad. Uh, does anybody else see the very obvious flaw in this reasoning? A very similar analogy would be, seat belts were invented because they save people from being thrown around in cars and ultimately save lives, but because sometimes lives are still lost when wearing a seat-belt seat-belts are bad and shouldn't be used.

They go on to say that the recommended air exchange rate in a home is 1/3 of the air every 3 hours as a minimum guideline for good health. They neglect to take into account that the way an air exchange is measured and calculated is with a door blower at 50 pa pressure difference and that ACTUAL air-change is MUCH MUCH lower than that in normal conditions. But for the sake of playing their game lets ignore that little tid-bit and say that it actually IS 1/3. They say that most stoves use a negligible amount (10-25 CFM) of intake air and that is insignificant to the air lost through the air-exchange. They say that a 1500 sf home will change 4000 cubic feet of air in 3 hours (remember, actual air-exchange is MUCH lower than the value they give). Do the calculations on how much air the stove will consume in that same time period. That's right, 1800-4500 cubic feet. I wouldn't call that insignificant compared to even their phony calculations of normal air exchange; it's definitely NOT insignificant compared to actual home air-exchange values.

And to play devil's advocate, lets just see how much extra energy it will take to heat your home if the combustion air is taken from the room the stove is in.
We'll calculate for 10 cfm (their lowest value) first. Air requires .018 BTU /CF/degree F to be heated. 10 cfm is 600 CF/hr, 14,400 CF/day. Lets say the heating season is 120 days of stove operation (mine operates 24/7 throughout the cold of winter but only every morning & evening or so on not so cold days), with an average temperature differential outdoors to indoors of 40 degrees (I'm being fairly conservative).
.018 * 14,400 * 120 * 40 = 1.2 MBTU, over 1 million BTU's of wasted energy... that's a conservative calculation.... lets go to worst case scenario but first, some explanations
#1 When taking combustion air from the room the stove is located theoretically draws the warmest air in your home (the very warm air right next to the stove), not the coldest, the temperature differential for the above calculation is likely 60 degrees or more, lets just go with 60
#2 When taking combustion air from the room the stove is in, there is a "trickle down effect" that makes the extremities of your home cooler because more cold, outside air is being drawing in the cracks etc all over the house, for those extremities to be/feel the same temperature you must run the stove hotter/longer, but lets ignore that just for convenience sake...

Worst case scenario:
25 cfm = 36,000 CF/day
.018 * 36,000 * 120 * 60 = 4.6 MBTU

That is just shy of a "rick" of low-BTU wood, and still over half "rick" of good wood. I wouldn't call that insignificant at all. Especially considering the entire premise of the argument is that "these don't work perfect to solve the problem they are meant to solve so we shouldn't use them at all".

As for what I think... their premise completely rests upon the fact that wind causes pressure differentials inside and outside the home. Those pressure differentials are what can cause an OAK to leak smoke back into the home through the door gasket on a stove. If you terminate the OAK in a neutral pressure environment the risk of a back draft is effectively reduced to zero. DON'T TERMINATE THE OAK ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE THAT ALWAYS RECEIVE THE WIND, terminate it somewhere that is very unlikely to receive positive pressures. If your manual allows it, per the UL listing of the stove, terminate the OAK into the attic space or crawl-space. Those are both EXCELLENT neutral pressure environments. Doing so virtually eliminates the risk of a back-draft that could vent smoke, and it all but terminates the risk that the OAK could catch fire due to a back draft (the one true negative that they could find with OAKs).

 

[88GT]

tagging.

Just found out a fireplace in a rental is now unsafe to use and the solution is an insert. I value these tenants and want them to have a way to burn, but the quote given seemed high. So I'm apparently in the information-gathering phase now.

 

[BobDaniels]

UPDATE: Had a Pacific Energy Summit w/brushed nickel door installed by _____ today. The insert looks nice and should do well for heating the house this winter. It's currently being "cured" and stinks like hell; they tell me it should only take a day to burn off the new smell; can't come soon enough!