Fishers - Not so cool...

[zecho]

Actually, I did read the whole story. I wasn't sure about the notification part and I was asking. If my wanting you to make sure that you have your butt covered now AND in the future is irrelevant, my apologies..

Sorry if I sounded arrogant there, I always cover my own butt.

 

[critter592]

This exact thing got a guy killed out west when one cop called for the guy to pull out his gun. Another cop didn't hear the order, saw the guy reach for his gun and opened fire. The other officers joined in the shoot.

Is this approach of "ok hand me your loaded gun butt first" taught in academy? Didn't we just see how wrong this was during the Indy open carry episode recently? Where is IndyMonkey anyway?

And what the heck does "ok I've got you covered" prove if the guy says he doesn't feel comfortable pulling out his gun?

I realize we only have one side of the story right now but holy cow!

 

[zecho]

Can anyone link me to the story about the guy getting killed "out west" so that I can include it in my message?

 

[Rookie]

ISP: Firearms FAQs

Page eight of the licensing to carry firearms FAQ

From the way I'm reading from Indiana state police website, since Ohio requires you to notify, Indiana requires you to do the same.

 

[zecho]

ISP: Firearms FAQs

Page eight of the licensing to carry firearms FAQ

From the way I'm reading from Indiana state police website, since Ohio requires you to notify, Indiana requires you to do the same.

Essplain please....

I am a permit holder from another state and will be in Indiana in the future. Where and
how can I carry my handgun in your state?
As stated in the previous question, Indiana honors licenses issued by other states according to the
terms thereof. In other words, if you home state requires the weapon be concealed, then the
weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in your vehicle in
your home state, then do not do so in Indiana.
Indiana does not prohibit Indiana personal protection permit holders from carrying in an
establishment that serves or sells alcohol.
An Indiana personal protection permit holder may carry on their person in their vehicle. There is
currently no statute requiring a person to notify an officer that they are a permit holder and
carrying a weapon if they are stopped for a traffic offense; however it is recommended.
Indiana does prohibit the carrying of firearms in the secure area of an airport, school property,
and gaming boats. Many government buildings prohibit weapons. Look for signs and postings
at the entrance of public parks and property. Further information on these prohibitions is in the
FAQ question on where it is permissible to carry.

 

[Rookie]

Indiana honors your permit according to the terms of your states rules. You are required to carry concealed and notify in Ohio. You are required to do the same here. Kinda stupid...

 

[zecho]

Indiana honors your permit according to the terms of your states rules. You are required to carry concealed and notify in Ohio. You are required to do the same here. Kinda stupid...

According to your DPS and license issuing agency, I am not required to notify. Not that this is relevant to the subject at hand.

 

[critter592]

Erik Scott Army vet gunned down: Slaying of Army veteran shocks friends - News - ReviewJournal.com

Another article: Pajamas Media Gunned Down in Vegas: What Really Happened to Erik Scott?

 

[zecho]

Erik Scott Army vet gunned down: Slaying of Army veteran shocks friends - News - ReviewJournal.com

Another article: Pajamas Media Gunned Down in Vegas: What Really Happened to Erik Scott?

Thank you for that. I have my attorney looking into this.. As much as I hate to be the "test case" I think that how the officer I was involved with handled the situation was inexcusable..

 

[Lobo]

Worthless turd. That is all I can say. If I were you I would immediately without hesitation contact his Chief and have a one-to-one with him. Things like this get people killed. That cop needs to find another job his lady-boy a** can handle...

INGunGuy

Always a pleasure to read your intelligent, measured and well-reasoned posts. I especially admire the level-headed responses that you provide, which always reflect best on the law abiding gun owners of this fine state. I'd say that if you aren't some kind of ambassador, you sure missed your calling! It's this kind of intellect that will sway people to support 2nd Amendment rights. Well done!

 

[ATM]

Indiana honors your permit according to the terms [strike]of your states rules[/strike] thereof...

The terms of his permit do not include all of his state laws. Certainly not when he's in another state.

 

[sbcman]

Zecho- man, I'm sorry about this whole deal. As you said, definitely "not cool." I'm glad the outcome didn't include flying lead.

As to the cops, I'm not coming down on them and I'm glad there's guys wanting to do that job because I certainly do not. Nevertheless, I would hope most cops would understand that if a guy admits up front that he's carrying and has a license to do so, then he's probably not looking for trouble.

 

[INGunGuy]

Always a pleasure to read your intelligent, measured and well-reasoned posts. I especially admire the level-headed responses that you provide, which always reflect best on the law abiding gun owners of this fine state. I'd say that if you aren't some kind of ambassador, you sure missed your calling! It's this kind of intellect that will sway people to support 2nd Amendment rights. Well done!

If you dont like the freedom of speech please move to North Korea...

INGunGuy

 

[Denny347]

Seems to me that under the laws of Indiana what you have here is an armed robbery.

Since the officer had no statutory authority to take your property and he took it from you at gunpoint it clearly meets the elements of that crime.

Bit of a grandiose statement is it not? While I belive the officer did not handle this appropriately and it would be rare for me to take custody of a firearm absent cause, it is still quite legal. You do not agree that traffic stops are Terry stops for all pratical purposes and a valid Terry stop does allow a "patdown" for weapons...VERY limited in scope and time. A traffic infraction does satisfy Terry. The USSC has given weight to "Officer Safety" during traffic stops Traffic Stops and Control of Passengers - PoliceLink
and if officers can force a passenger to stay in the vehicle (now in officer's custody) during the duration of the traffic stop for officer safety, it is not a jump to allow the same thing with firearms or other dangerous weapons.

What I am saying is that just because I don't usually take weapons during a "routine" traffic stop, does not mean I don't have the legal authority to do so if I choose.

 

[INGunGuy]

Bit of a grandiose statement is it not? While I belive the officer did not handle this appropriately and it would be rare for me to take custody of a firearm absent cause, it is still quite legal. You do not agree that traffic stops are Terry stops for all pratical purposes and a valid Terry stop does allow a "patdown" for weapons...VERY limited in scope and time. A traffic infraction does satisfy Terry. The USSC has given weight to "Officer Safety" during traffic stops Traffic Stops and Control of Passengers - PoliceLink
and if officers can force a passenger to stay in the vehicle (now in officer's custody) during the duration of the traffic stop for officer safety, it is not a jump to allow the same thing with firearms or other dangerous weapons.

What I am saying is that just because I don't usually take weapons during a "routine" traffic stop, does not mean I don't have the legal authority to do so if I choose.

The problem is in the way the officer handled the situation. As we all know there are ALWAYS 3 sides to a story, his version, their version, and the truth. I am not disputing in any way what the OP stated, all I am saying is that from what was told the officer was WAY OUT OF LINE.

Why does it seem like the law enforcement professionals have no need for "customer service"? It is the ONLY profession that I know of that no matter what, "THEY" are "ALWAYS" correct.

I hear too many times about how LEO over-react to a LEGAL gun owner. That is the reason I will NEVER inform a LEO that I am carrying, I dont need to have him/her pull their gun and stick in in my face, or I dont need to be covered by my own weapon.

INGunGuy

 

[Denny347]

The problem is in the way the officer handled the situation. As we all know there are ALWAYS 3 sides to a story, his version, their version, and the truth. I am not disputing in any way what the OP stated, all I am saying is that from what was told the officer was WAY OUT OF LINE.

Why does it seem like the law enforcement professionals have no need for "customer service"? It is the ONLY profession that I know of that no matter what, "THEY" are "ALWAYS" correct.

I hear too many times about how LEO over-react to a LEGAL gun owner. That is the reason I will NEVER inform a LEO that I am carrying, I dont need to have him/her pull their gun and stick in in my face, or I dont need to be covered by my own weapon.

INGunGuy

I agree with this. The academy teaches many things. Common sense is NOT one of them. Some officers will never have it and some will gain it with experience. Come to think about it, the only time firearms are introduced in training scenereos, it is in a negative light. If you get a recruit with ZERO personal firearms experience and only the negative light of firearms in mass media, are we surprised of the reaction?

 

[GuyRelford]

A traffic infraction does satisfy Terry.

This is not always true - particularly when there is no cause for a "reasonable belief" that the driver is engaged in other criminal behavior or presents a danger to the officer. Once the driver presents a valid LTCH, the presence of a firearm does NOT create a basis for any such reasonable belief, and a further search of the driver or the vehicle is illegal.

See Washington v. State (Ind. Ct. App. 2010) at http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions...3041001jsk.pdf and State v. Richardson, (Ind. 2010) at http://www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions...6031001fsj.pdf

 

[GuyRelford]

Thank you for that. I have my attorney looking into this.. As much as I hate to be the "test case" I think that how the officer I was involved with handled the situation was inexcusable..

I agree 100%. I've been enagaged in another current thread ("Surrendering your Firearm") where I've been advocating the voluntary disclosure of your LTCH if you have a firearm in the car. I've done that twice without incident. The officers even thanked me and we had very polite and respectful conversations. But your situation certainly lends support to the folks in that thread who disagree with me, and say that they would never voluntarily disclose the presence of a firearm for fear of an over-reaction by the officer.

I think I'll stick with my present policy - and hope (perhaps naively) that your experience (and LEO) were the exception to the rule.

I wish you great success. I am VERY interested in how this turns out. Please keep us informed!!

Guy

 

[bassplayrguy]

I agree with this. The academy teaches many things. Common sense is NOT one of them. Some officers will never have it and some will gain it with experience. Come to think about it, the only time firearms are introduced in training scenereos, it is in a negative light. If you get a recruit with ZERO personal firearms experience and only the negative light of firearms in mass media, are we surprised of the reaction?[/quote]

I am surpised that the academy would turn someone loose with a gun and didn't train them at all with it and then we as a public are supposed to hand this guy our weapons for "officer safety"???? He is safe with his own damn gun!!! Again, you have NO BUSINESS handling my weapon and then hiding behind officer safety b.s.. If you are that scared, do something else for a living.

 

[rockhopper46038]

In general (at least in my experience) the Fishers PD has been quite professional about carrying both openly and concealed. I carry openly quite frequently and have been in the presence of some Fishers officers (most recently at the Penn Station at 116th and Cumberland) and haven't had anyone say "boo" to me. I really, REALLY hope that this was an isolated incident, and that there hasn't been a shift in training within the Fishers PD. My two interactions with Fishers LEO (both non gun related, and no, I'm not one of THOSE drivers; I just had opportunity to chat with a couple officers ) have been quite pleasant. I've been meaning for awhile to go over and say "hi" to the chief, maybe I'll try to see if he's in this week and ask him, generally, how he trains his officers for MWAG calls and LTCH awareness.