Ford's Audacious Plan to Save $25 Billion: Cut Every Car Except These Two Models

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Consider what happened to Saturn a few years ago. The division changed from a couple of reliable, well-built models and created a SUV, a larger SUV, larger sedans, and a sporty convertible. Once they got away from focusing on what they did well they became no different from the other GM divisions, and quality (and sales) suffered.

Find what you do well, and stay with it.

Saturn was run completely differently than all other GM plants. It was it's own entity. My history might be a bit foggy here and this isn't meant to be an exhaustive history lesson but as I recall, that was Roger Smith's baby. When he retired there was pressure to bring it in line with the rest of GM's operations. When the lavish hourly bonuses dwindled and the good times faded, then there was pressure from the hourly folks to be more like the rest of GM. I can't remember if Saturn was ever "profitable". But when the founder and his vision retired and people took over that didn't share it, it was only a matter of time before it became just another division of GM.

 

[MarkC]

A 1996 Saturn SW1 serves as my kid's runabout car...and will be spending a second summer in Kentucky with my son. Reliable, easy to maintain, cheap on gas....no rust...that shows.

We had a 1998 SL1 that would probably had run forever, had the Mrs. avoided the misfortune of smacking a parked car. Like yours, it was reliable, easy to maintain, and no rust (yet). I was impressed.

The mother-in-law had a 2003 Vue, and it was not near as well put-together or as reliable as our SL1.

I miss that little car; too bad it had to die (I'm glad the Mrs. does not read INGO!).

 

[MarkC]

Saturn was run completely differently than all other GM plants. It was it's own entity. My history might be a bit foggy here and this isn't meant to be an exhaustive history lesson but as I recall, that was Roger Smith's baby. When he retired there was pressure to bring it in line with the rest of GM's operations. When the lavish hourly bonuses dwindled and the good times faded, then there was pressure from the hourly folks to be more like the rest of GM. I can't remember if Saturn was ever "profitable". But when the founder and his vision retired and people took over that didn't share it, it was only a matter of time before it became just another division of GM.

My wife was a floor supervisor at a Cadillac plant in Hamtramck in the late 1990's. This is also her take on what happened to Saturn, to cause them to move into other car lines.

 

[printcraft]

I wonder what will happen with Lincoln?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

My wife was a floor supervisor at a Cadillac plant in Hamtramck in the late 1990's. This is also her take on what happened to Saturn, to cause them to move into other car lines.

I had a chance to go to Saturn before the plant got built. For years, I kicked myself for not going....until they closed it down. The plant is back in operation now. I forget what they make there though.

 

[Route 45]

I wonder what will happen with Lincoln?

There is no reason for Lincoln to exist. It will likely go the way of Mercury.
Nobody who is looking at BMW, Audi and Lexus is cross-shopping Lincoln.

 

[churchmouse]

I had a chance to go to Saturn before the plant got built. For years, I kicked myself for not going....until they closed it down. The plant is back in operation now. I forget what they make there though.

If memory serves Saturn did not have its own engine/drivetrain and they bought them from Chevy I believe. I could be wrong here but some in the know folks said that was one of the levers used to push Saturn into line.
MIL had one. Very well made car. Plastic body panels if memory serves.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If memory serves Saturn did not have its own engine/drivetrain and they bought them from Chevy I believe. I could be wrong here but some in the know folks said that was one of the levers used to push Saturn into line.
MIL had one. Very well made car. Plastic body panels if memory serves.

No...they had a foundry and die cast operation on site. I've been there. They sort of pioneered the lost foam process for making aluminum engine parts. (Can't remember if they made engine blocks that way or just the heads).

Yeah, I was a fan of the plastic body panels. I had a fiero that had them.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

We have both an older Focus and newer Fusion. Both great cars for what they are. Reliable, comfortable, easy to maintain, and good on gas mileage. We have owned other makes in the past, and always come back to Ford. This will make it interesting, when it comes time to purchase a new car.

 

[churchmouse]

No...they had a foundry and die cast operation on site. I've been there. They sort of pioneered the lost foam process for making aluminum engine parts. (Can't remember if they made engine blocks that way or just the heads).

Yeah, I was a fan of the plastic body panels. I had a fiero that had them.

Interesting.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Interesting.

It was something to see in its hey-day. They were pretty well vertically integrated at that site. I know they had a foundry, fab shop/metal stamping, and assembly all under one "roof(s)" . I know they didn't make their own tires, batteries, and those sorts of commodity type parts but they did pretty much everything else.

 

[printcraft]

There is no reason for Lincoln to exist. It will likely go the way of Mercury.
Nobody who is looking at BMW, Audi and Lexus is cross-shopping Lincoln.

Alright, Alright, Alright...

Matthew McConaughey is going to be pissed.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Consider what happened to Saturn a few years ago. The division changed from a couple of reliable, well-built models and created a SUV, a larger SUV, larger sedans, and a sporty convertible. Once they got away from focusing on what they did well they became no different from the other GM divisions, and quality (and sales) suffered.

Find what you do well, and stay with it.

They kind of had to, though. After four years of sales, Saturn topped out. From that point on, sales were flat or down every year they didn't introduce a new model. (To clarify, I mean introduce new models, not drop in quality.)

Saturn was run completely differently than all other GM plants. It was it's own entity. My history might be a bit foggy here and this isn't meant to be an exhaustive history lesson but as I recall, that was Roger Smith's baby. When he retired there was pressure to bring it in line with the rest of GM's operations. When the lavish hourly bonuses dwindled and the good times faded, then there was pressure from the hourly folks to be more like the rest of GM. I can't remember if Saturn was ever "profitable". But when the founder and his vision retired and people took over that didn't share it, it was only a matter of time before it became just another division of GM.

That's the history in a nutshell, and yes it was Smith's baby. He retired right as they came to market. Other execs weren't as enthralled with it, and the union wasn't either. I've read there were some power struggles at the executive level and Saturn ended up being starved out a bit as far as R&D, new models, even though dealers were begging for a bigger car or SUV. They wanted a line up like Honda, where you had a definite entry level, mid level, and high level car so that early buyers of entry level cars would come back and "trade up" as their situation improved.

If Saturn ever turned a profit or not is tougher to tell. GM didn't report Saturn profits/losses separately that I'm aware of. I've read they were profitable early on depending on how you did the books, which made it sound more to me like they were cash flow positive but hadn't yet paid for all the capital investment. However there's no doubt they were cash flow negative for many of their last years. Saturn, Saab, and Hummer were generating a loss of a fuzz over $1b a year for years leading up to the gov't bailout.

It's one of those things that seems like it had a lot of potential but was just left to die on the vine. Their marketing campaign was excellent. I still remember the commercial of the workers jumping on a plastic body panel and showing it wasn't damaged. They were very good at making a connection between the car and the customer, sort of like Subaru does.

I wonder what will happen with Lincoln?

They are all being recalled as they can't turn left. They are...

Alright, Alright, Alright...

Matthew McConaughey is going to be pissed.

OK, you beat me to it.

 

[snorko]

Edited above to include more information.

Ford owes the gvt. a considerable amount still. GM does not.

Kinda apples and oranges, but the gvt. hasn't owned a piece of GM for several years.

GM got no handouts. They got loans which had to be and were repaid. Where the hard-to-account-for analysis comes in is the gvt. bought a chunk of GM and resold it. That's not a "handout", really, and not a loan, but the gvt. lost money on the deal. How much will be debated forever.

Didn't they buy the Union's stock holdings? I know no one bought my shares and the value was wiped out, the shares dissolved and I was left with nothing while the company comes back.

 

[melensdad]

I think the bigger part of why it is not an issue is that in a start/stop situation, they aren't normally stopped long enough to cool down much.

I think your fears are groundless. They've been using this technology for a decade or more in Europe. Its far more common there because they pay far more in fuel costs. If it was unreliable we'd have heard the screams all the way across the Atlantic.

Didn't they buy the Union's stock holdings? I know no one bought my shares and the value was wiped out, the shares dissolved and I was left with nothing while the company comes back.

They protected the UNION shares and destroyed the value of private investors shares. So people who held GM stock inside their IRA or other retirement plans, even if they owned those GM shares inside Mutual Funds, had their shares wiped out. That is why so many people are pissed off about the "government bail out" of GM and they are right to be pissed off. Many lost thousands, or even tens of thousands, of dollars in their retirement accounts.

 

[Leadeye]

I keep wondering what will replace the Viper and will it still be 10 cylinder.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

They kind of had to, though. After four years of sales, Saturn topped out. From that point on, sales were flat or down every year they didn't introduce a new model. (To clarify, I mean introduce new models, not drop in quality.)



That's the history in a nutshell, and yes it was Smith's baby. He retired right as they came to market. Other execs weren't as enthralled with it, and the union wasn't either. I've read there were some power struggles at the executive level and Saturn ended up being starved out a bit as far as R&D, new models, even though dealers were begging for a bigger car or SUV. They wanted a line up like Honda, where you had a definite entry level, mid level, and high level car so that early buyers of entry level cars would come back and "trade up" as their situation improved.

If Saturn ever turned a profit or not is tougher to tell. GM didn't report Saturn profits/losses separately that I'm aware of. I've read they were profitable early on depending on how you did the books, which made it sound more to me like they were cash flow positive but hadn't yet paid for all the capital investment. However there's no doubt they were cash flow negative for many of their last years. Saturn, Saab, and Hummer were generating a loss of a fuzz over $1b a year for years leading up to the gov't bailout.

It's one of those things that seems like it had a lot of potential but was just left to die on the vine. Their marketing campaign was excellent. I still remember the commercial of the workers jumping on a plastic body panel and showing it wasn't damaged. They were very good at making a connection between the car and the customer, sort of like Subaru does.



They are all being recalled as they can't turn left. They are...



OK, you beat me to it.

Yeah, I forgot about the product line up issue. They did leave them to push tired old models without anything to guide repeat buyers, growing families, etc to as they were ready to trade in. As I understand it, the union guys that worked there were ok with their deal -- mostly because it was much more lucrative than their regular GM brothers and sisters. I remember hearing about their bonuses and drooling.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Sad to see the changes. I know it's all about the dollar signs, but I love my cars big, comfy, and powerful. I still think Ford messed up when they did away with the Panther platform (Ford Crown Victoria & Mercury Grand Marquis) in 2011. Almost every police dept in the country was using the Crown Vic. Now Dodge is selling Chargers like crazy. I have seen a lot of departments go to SUVs, (many Ford) but nothing is as comfy as a big car if you're going to have to spend a lot of time in it. I drive over 2 hrs each way to go to my VA appointments, and love my big (and fast) 2003 Mercury Marauder. (same Panther platform) I'll never be able to replace her, so I'll have to keep her running. Newer cars just don't have the same feel, and are too cramped inside. I love all the gee-wiz tech goodies they're coming up with, but very sad to see the days of the full size American car gone...


But they'll make money, and survive...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That's not what they are doing, though. They are cutting research on "traditional sedans" and looking to replace them with new models in what I'd suppose we'd call "crossovers" or small SUVs.

A thought occurred to me yesterday. I can not believe Ford is really ready to abandon the field when it comes to personal, everyday, people and grocery haulers. To do so, I think, without looking it up, be a huge hit for their market share. I understand they're not as profitable as trucks. GM is much the same way. But to willingly give up market share and shrink as a company? That'd be huge. Instead, the more I think about it, what you said about about cross overs of various sizes and capabilities is probably where they're going.

I just cannot see a company like Ford throwing in the towel like that story I posted would necessarily entail.

 

[rvb]

A thought occurred to me yesterday. I can not believe Ford is really ready to abandon the field when it comes to personal, everyday, people and grocery haulers. To do so, I think, without looking it up, be a huge hit for their market share. I understand they're not as profitable as trucks. GM is much the same way. But to willingly give up market share and shrink as a company? That'd be huge. Instead, the more I think about it, what you said about about cross overs of various sizes and capabilities is probably where they're going.

I just cannot see a company like Ford throwing in the towel like that story I posted would necessarily entail.

What if they regained some of that market share (and helped CAFE ratings) by adding to their truck/SUV lineup with things like Ranger and Bronco?

-rvb