Franklin armory introducing Short barrel firearm with stock without stamp

[BiscuitsandGravy]

Throws an armorers wrench at his head...

QFT. Clear wisdom. Those wrenches are heavy and could leave a mark.

 

[bmbutch]

Could be Gold Jerry, Gold

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

I'm loving the Dodgeball references in this thread

 

[Thor]

From their website it looks like they consider them pistols...not SBRs.

https://www.franklinarmory.com/collections/complete-firearms

 

[Anima mundi]

(b) Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.


(c) Rifle
The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.

It looks like they saw the difference where "function" is used in section (b) for machineguns and "pull" is used in section (c) for rifles. Therefore, someone could take a virgin receiver, put a binary trigger in it, and then attach a stock and a short barrel. A machinegun is more than one bullet per trigger function. A rifle or SBR is one bullet per trigger pull. A binary trigger means the firearm shoots one bullet per trigger function but two bullets per trigger pull, so it's neither a machinegun nor rifle, just a "firearm." Since it was built off a virgin receiver then it doesn't meet the "remade" part of the SBR definition either.


It's a really tiny loophole (and I do mean loophole because there's no way this was intended, unlike the supposed "gunshow" loophole.) But assuming the ATF letter is legit, then they're going by the letter of the law, as they should.


The big question for me is whether the ATF will allow such a firearm be non-NFA if it can only shoot in binary mode, or if the trigger group just has to be capable of shooting in binary mode, and a safe/semi/binary trigger group is OK.

If this actually ends up being the case then I am probably going to laugh myself to death. The binary trigger will be the loophole to defeat both machine gun and SBR definitions.

 

[HoughMade]

Um...with a binary trigger, a single projectile fired with a single pull. A release of the trigger is a separate action and not a "pull"...at least everyone with a binary trigger better hope it is. Just because they were dumb enough to have designed a system that does not allow the trigger to be released without firing doesn't mean the pull itself fires the cartridge.

In sum:

I think I know how this will end.

[video=youtube;KGUmfhURKcY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGUmfhURKcY[/video]

...and even if they got legal advice on this, remember, every bar exam has someone who passed and who scored lowest...probably on their 4th attempt....who knows that if anyone goes to prison, it won't be them.

 

[Thegeek]

So, the barrel is less than 16". The article refers to a loophole.... so what is it? Where are people seeing "smooth bore"? Doesn't that make it a shotgun?

 

[Bigtanker]

So, the barrel is less than 16". The article refers to a loophole.... so what is it? Where are people seeing "smooth bore"? Doesn't that make it a shotgun?

Nope. Makes it a firearm just like the Mossberg Shockwave.

 

[worddoer]

From their website it looks like they consider them pistols...not SBRs.

https://www.franklinarmory.com/collections/complete-firearms

I don't think it's a pistol. It's not wearing a brace like all the other pistols on the linked website. The new offering is using a Magpul Stock. Pics below for comparison....

 

[Hoosier8]

From what I understand is that the NRS technology refers to a barrel with no rifling. That would make the comment that it is not a shotgun make sense.

 

[T.Lex]

AOW includes smoothbore weapons.

As I ponder this, I really wonder if the binary trigger thing is the key. That might really be the technical loophole.

Unfortunately, it would also be an easy legislative change to close that loophole.

Strange days.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, its got to be the happy-but-not-REALLY-happy switch. Look at the safety in the pic. It looks like it has 3 spots, usually safe-semi-full. Well, we know it isn't fully-full. But, that could be a binary setting, which isn't full. If it doesn't shoot 1 round with each trigger pull, which is part of the definition of a rifle (as opposed to MG), then it - super technically - isn't a rifle. It fails that test because it shoots 2 rounds with each pull.

But, it also fails the MG test because it doesn't load and shoot more than 1 round with each trigger "function."

That's. Wild.

 

[Hookeye]

The law has specs........on what a rifle and pistol are.
This then does not fit within those specs.
My guess is that the receiver is not your standard AR in dimension and that diff allows it to be sold as a firearm.

Like the shockwave firearm.............that long ugly rear grip makes it a firearm.
How many put reg pistol grips on it and change the classification?

Same ones would try to copy the item of this thread using their reg AR lower.

Let them pay whatever such folly costs.

 

[T.Lex]

I don't understand what receiver specs could take it out of NFA/non-NFA binariness. Even if it isn't an "AR" receiver, the key is how it functions.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

post picture to web

 

[Thegeek]

I guess I'm just lost on the AOW then. What is the definition of a shotgun then? So rifled bullets kind of like some modern shotgun slugs?

 

[Ballstater98]

[video=youtube_share;F5Kdnq34Kj4]http://youtu.be/F5Kdnq34Kj4[/video]

 

[Alamo]

From what I understand is that the NRS technology refers to a barrel with no rifling. That would make the comment that it is not a shotgun make sense.

On soldiersystems.net a commenter said he called Franklin and asked if it was smooth bore. He said they told him "no" but they wouldn't tell him anything else.

Is there a way to machine the barrel so it provides bullet stabilization that isn't technically/legally "rifling"?

 

[Bigtanker]

[video=youtube_share;F5Kdnq34Kj4]http://youtu.be/F5Kdnq34Kj4[/video]

That's an interesting theory.

 

[snapping turtle]

At 1100 that means you could spend 900 on an SBR and 200 for the stamp. The binary triggers are expensive so that is 300-400 giving you just 500-600 for the remainder of the build. Personally I like the two stage triggers on target guns and single stage on normal plinkers. The binary is cool but without a semi button in the middle I look at the second release shot as a liability even at a range. Maybe since I have only shot a binary twice I still fear the unknown or different.

I don’t think I would like a release to fire trigger but I have a thumb trigger Winchester 22 and given enough time I think I could adjust to the thumb. I guess once you pull it and hold it what happens if a cold range or other issue caused you not to want to do the release?