Franklin armory introducing Short barrel firearm with stock without stamp

[Alamo]

...I guess once you pull it and hold it what happens if a cold range or other issue caused you not to want to do the release?

I never heard of the binary trigger until today, but looking at Franklin's website, it appears it comes with semi-auto and binary options. If you are in binary mode and don't want to "release" the second shot, you flip the selector to semi-auto or safe, which disconnects something so you can release the trigger without firing a shot.

 

[Floivanus]

The NFA defines rifles and shotguns as weapons that expell a single projectile per PULL of the trigger.

machine guns ade defined as multiple shots per function of the trigger

the new offering from franklin is a 26.5" long firearm, with either a release trigger (fires round on release not pull) or binary only trigger. Get away from that pesky PULL of the trigger required by a rifle, not a loophole, just reading the law

 

[Bigtanker]

I never heard of the binary trigger until today, but looking at Franklin's website, it appears it comes with semi-auto and binary options. If you are in binary mode and don't want to "release" the second shot, you flip the selector to semi-auto or safe, which disconnects something so you can release the trigger without firing a shot.

You are correct. That is how it works. The speculation for this rifle is the binary trigger has no semi selection. Remove the ability of the "semi-only" so there are two (2) projectiles leaving the barrel with each full movement of the trigger and it no longer meets the ATF's description of a rifle. It's explained in the video.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Franklin says it's not the trigger.

Good marketing move not just saying what it is. They are certainly generating free marketing buzz.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

At the end of the day I am interested because it pushes the boundaries and shows why the NFA is irrelevant

Boom!! This man has a valid point.

 

[T.Lex]

Franklin says it's not the trigger.

Good marketing move not just saying what it is. They are certainly generating free marketing buzz.

That could technically be true. The safe-single-binary switch wouldn't be the "trigger" but the fire control group. If that is a drop in kit for any AR, that would be cool.

 

[Alamo]

...Remove the ability of the "semi-only" so there are two (2) projectiles leaving the barrel with each full movement of the trigger and it no longer meets the ATF's description of a rifle. It's explained in the video.

However, the pictures of the Reformation show a semi position for the fire selector switch. So is it just disinformation or does that position just not do anything and have an ersatz label?

 

[snapping turtle]

Maybe it is labeled semi / semi. Or no bang till Brooklyn.

 

[HoughMade]

You are correct. That is how it works. The speculation for this rifle is the binary trigger has no semi selection. Remove the ability of the "semi-only" so there are two (2) projectiles leaving the barrel with each full movement of the trigger and it no longer meets the ATF's description of a rifle. It's explained in the video.

The pull releases one bullet. If there is a rifled bullet, it's a rifle. Another action is required to release a second bullet. Releasing the trigger takes place after the pull and is not the pull. Therefore, each pull of the trigger does not​ release more than one bullet. If this is the thread of a "loophole" they think they have found, I urge them to look harder.

...though if they say "not the trigger" and are not being ultra specific, this wouldn't be it.

 

[Alamo]

Franklin says it's not the trigger.

Good marketing move not just saying what it is. They are certainly generating free marketing buzz.

It's a smoothbore! No! It's a binary trigger! No! It's...it's...SUPERNONNFAGUN!

 

[Floivanus]

The thought I keep seeing is in the definitions in the NFA the latest I see is this

a rifle is defined as a gun designed to be fired from the shoulder with an overall length greater than 26" and a barrel at least 16"

a SBR is a weapon made from a rifle with a barrel less than 16" or an overall length under 26"

so building a "firearm" 26.5" in length (remember that 11.5" barreled AR pistols are generally 26.5" overall length) creates something that isn't a rifle, didn't start life as a rifle and by definition cannot be an SBR, isn't an AOW and doesn't require a tax stamp, because of the OR in the SBR definition.

 

[Trigger Time]

Probably has 2 barrels and fires 2 bullets with each trigger pull. That would do it

 

[ScouT6a]

Floivanus, the "fly in the ointment" on your theory would be Franklin Armory's addition of the shoulder stock.
I built an 10.5" barreled AR pistol. Yes, it is over 26.5" OAL, so it can be classified as a "firearm" and I can add a forward vertical grip. But, it still has a Sig Brace and was not "designed to be fired from the shoulder". (although it can be and is)
I am following this development, intently. I am very curious about their loop hole.

 

[M67]

Been thinking about this and curious on something
As mentioned in a video it can't be a smoothbore cause the bullet won't stabilize and it would be pointless

But it probably can't be rifled either (unless the previous theory of the OAL is the key and it is a standard barrel)

But can a barrel be heated and twisted in a way that would create a hybrid polygonal style rifling but since it was never actually had rifling cut or pressed, it's not considered rifling by the ATF? It's just the way the metal was twisted that is stabilizing the bullet

 

[Tactically Fat]

Been thinking about this and curious on something
As mentioned in a video it can't be a smoothbore cause the bullet won't stabilize and it would be pointless

But it probably can't be rifled either (unless the previous theory of the OAL is the key and it is a standard barrel)

But can a barrel be heated and twisted in a way that would create a hybrid polygonal style rifling but since it was never actually had rifling cut or pressed, it's not considered rifling by the ATF? It's just the way the metal was twisted that is stabilizing the bullet

I'm no metallurgist or anything - but wrapping (see what I did there?) around that process and having it be regular and uniform and repeatable seems like it'd be a monumental task.

 

[shootersix]

just throwing this out there, IF and I'm saying IF, it has to do with the binary trigger, its kinda a stupid thing for them to do! we are 9 days away (as of 1.16.18) from the batfe ruling on the "legality" of bump stocks and binary triggers!

so what.....they make them for 9 days and then what? surrender them....destroy them.....OR regulate them(bump stocks and binary tiggers) like a class 3 weapon...and add the 200 dollar tax that you are saving by NOT having a sbr?

I guess all we can do is wait...shot show starts in 7 days (atf ruling will happen during the shot show!) coinkydink.....I think not!

 

[T.Lex]

As for that, if there is a significant rule change (i.e., making binary triggers either illegal or an NFA part), then by having a product in the market at the time of the rule change can afford them a better legal argument in the inevitable litigation.

Instead of: well, we were almost ready to bring something to market.

The argument is: we have been deprived of revenue estimated at $30brazillion dollars.

Probably not the best reason to push something to market, but not a bad one, either.

 

[HoughMade]

The thought I keep seeing is in the definitions in the NFA the latest I see is this

a rifle is defined as a gun designed to be fired from the shoulder with an overall length greater than 26" and a barrel at least 16"

a SBR is a weapon made from a rifle with a barrel less than 16" or an overall length under 26"

so building a "firearm" 26.5" in length (remember that 11.5" barreled AR pistols are generally 26.5" overall length) creates something that isn't a rifle, didn't start life as a rifle and by definition cannot be an SBR, isn't an AOW and doesn't require a tax stamp, because of the OR in the SBR definition.

Nope. Being over 16" is not part of the definition of "rifle":

(c) Rifle.--The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.

26 U.S.C. § 5845

An SBR is also not defined as being "made from" a rifle. It is a rifle, just a particular kind of one:

(8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

18 U.S.C. § 921.

 

[miguel]

I'm really baffled how they are getting away with this. It will be interesting to see how this goes, the entire 16in barrel regulation is complete BS to begin with. Maybe this is the beginning of the end for those regulations.

Same way CO, WA and CA get away with selling dope. Lax enforcement.

 

[HoughMade]

I have a sneaking suspicion that we are going to be disappoint by what this turns out to be.