Garage lighting

[sharkey]

Do you doubt my T17 bulbs??? Or just trolling???

Well, I used to bullseye womprats in my T16 back home. Who am I to question your T17s?

 

[sharkey]

Are the ballast bad? If so they are pretty easy to swap out. I can tell you on here exactly how to do it.

They probably are. Simple as it is, most of the bulbs have rings too, and I prefer LED to fluorescent. At the end of the day, the cost to upgrade to LED is not much more than ballast plus bulbs.

Appreciate the offer though. Ain't INGO great?

 

[Joe G]

Do you doubt my T17 bulbs??? Or just trolling???

There certainly were T17 sized fluorescent lamps. My post wasn't aimed at you.


Just a lot of downright false info and assumptions about the old technology (T12, T8, T5) as well as new tech LED posted here. I don't want to call anyone out specifically, but I'll caution anyone who wants correct info to do their own research.

 

[mrjarrell]

There certainly were T17 sized fluorescent lamps. My post wasn't aimed at you.


Just a lot of downright false info and assumptions about the old technology (T12, T8, T5) as well as new tech LED posted here. I don't want to call anyone out specifically, but I'll caution anyone who wants correct info to do their own research.

Why don't you just point out where people were wrong, so they have something to aim for in their research?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Why don't you just point out where people were wrong, so they have something to aim for in their research?

+1. Me personally, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Wouldnt be the first time.

Throw us a bone and educate us if we are so wrong. Dont just take a pompous "I know you are wrong, now you need to go do your homework so you can learn for yourself." attitude. If you know better, educate us and show us the error of our ways.

 

[Joe G]

I second the florescents. They give you more than enough light and are cost efficient. Only drawback to them is that some of them get testy in really cold weather and may not fire up immediately. Doesn't happen a lot, but it can, (as I well know). If your garage is heated it won't be an issue. Putting in a couple of spots over work spaces may also be an option for you for more directed light, (like over a workbench) if you want lots of light.

Correct on all points. T8 and T5's are both very efficient. The "energy saving" versions (GE calls them "watt miser", Sylvania "Super Saver" etc) save a few extra watts vs. the standard but to do that they use different fill gases in the tube - and it's because of those fill gases that they don't work well (or sometimes even start) at low temps.

Example:

"Recommended to be used on any F32 T8 Instant Start circuit. It is not recommended to be used1) with Rapid Start circuits unless the open circuit voltage is greater than 550V, (2) at lamp ambient temperatures below 60 degrees F or in drafty locations, (3) on dimming ballast or (4) inverter operated emergency lighting systems unless any of the above equipment is specifically listed for use with the OCTRON(R) SUPERSAVER(R) 28 or 30 watt, 4 foot or 30W U-bent T8 lamp. Any of the above situations could result in lamp starting and stabilization problems"

 

[Joe G]

+1 for the led's we are changing all of our florescent fixtures over to led. They put out great light and as a plus they don't use the ballast so one less thing to go bad.

ALL LED MUST use a driver (sometimes incorrectly called a ballast). They can either be integral to the lamp itself (ie: it's not a seperate part like a fluorescent ballast), or external, but there MUST be one.

There are 3 types of T8 LED retrofit lamps:
- ones that work off of line voltage (120-277v typically) where you bypass the existing fluor. ballast
- ones that work off of the existing ballast (almost always MUST be a instant start electronic ballast for T8 lamps) - just remove the old T8 and put in the LED T8 lamp
- ones that use an external LED driver in place of the old fluor. ballast

All have their benefits and drawbacks. There are papers written about all three and why you should and should not use one vs. another.

 

[Joe G]

Anything with a ballast is going to be destroyed by LED in on/off cycles if that is going to be a concern.

False.

Fluorescent T8 lamps on an INSTANT START ballast will have shortened life when turned on/off frequently, but those same T8 lamps on an electronic PROGRAM RAPID START ballast can literally be turned on/off 100,000+ times with zero effect on lamp life.

LED lamps can be turned on/off at any frequency with no effect on life.

 

[Joe G]

This:

The Garage Light for Garages and Shops | Big Ass Light

This company, from my experience, is selling overpriced LED fixtures that have below-average performance in both output and life. There are so many better options that I wouldn't recommend it in any application - unless you want to overspend for a brand name.

 

[Joe G]

If you can avoid Fluorescent bulbs do it. The T12 are already banned from production. Soon the T8s will be banned and same with T5. LED is the future. If you plan on having the Garage for 20 years u might as well go LED now instead of later. LEDs are not very good when it comes to 360 lighting they have a definite field of range at about 30 degrees. And despite what people will say LEDs do not last forever. The bulb itself will last a super long time but the ballast equivalent goes out just as often as the Fluorescents does.

T12's are NOT banned from production. There are still plenty of T12 lamps produced that meet the current Energy Legislation requirements for efficiency - only the cheap-o low efficiency T12's were regulated out of existance.

T8's and T5's are still some of the most efficient systems out there - yes, even more so than many LED systems. They won't be going anywhere for a long time as they meet a market for lower priced but still efficient lighting. As LED prices continue to decline the financial rationale for a customer to choose fluorescent vs. LED will become slimmer and slimmer.


Oh, and LED's can have a beam spread of anywhere from 1 degree to nearly 360 degrees. The LED chip (or array if it's in a full fixture) is directional, but most if not all fixtures have some type of reflector/refractor that controls where the light is "thrown" - which is why you can oftentimes use a LED fixture that advertises less lumens than the light source you are replacing because the LED fixture puts the light where it's needed vs. throwing it in every direction. A good example is parking lot lighting - LED fixtures using 120-170 watts put out less lumens than traditional 400w metal halide or sodium fixtures, but we consistently get higher and more even foot-candle readings on the ground, making it brighter and safer.

 

[Joe G]

Heh. I just moved from a garage where the overheads behaved exactly as expected: stodgy ignition and depressing burn at cold temps. My new garage has T12's that don't want to fire up at 70+ degrees.

I am gabberflasted at the behaviour, but will use the excuse to move to LED fixtures.

See my explanation for this above...

 

[Brian Ski]

Just a lot of downright false info and assumptions about the old technology (T12, T8, T5) as well as new tech LED posted here. I don't want to call anyone out specifically, but I'll caution anyone who wants correct info to do their own research.

Thanks for all the info. Not sure what I posted earlier... (if I said T5s or T8s) I have triple T8s in the garage. They are 4' and have doubles (2 sets of 3 T8s to make 8') They fire up pretty well in cold weather (sub freezing) And get to normal brightness in a couple minutes. I kick em on and off a few times a day. They are about 10 years old, and I am losing a ballast once in a while. Bulbs seem to be holding up well... Just noticed I lost another ballast the other day.

BTW 6- 8 foot fixtures in a 1200 sq ft garage. They work well but added a 8' right above the work bench for better light where i am directly working.

 

[BugI02]

Are you limited on voltage? I may be able to get you some lights from work. They're high bay warehouse lights, only downside is they take a while to warm up when you first cut them on and they get hot. They're kinda like these...
HID High Bays

Too many of those could get you a visit from the DEA

 

[sbnewsom]

I'll chime in here. I am in the industrial lighting business. It is true that most large industrials are now migrating over to LED. The reason for this is due to the rebates being offered by energy companies, and the increased maintenance cost of a standard HID or Flourescent. My 2 biggest LED lighting lines have warranties out to 5 years on their standard LED offerings. This is more than enough because with LED, if there is a problem with the driver, the fixture usually dies pretty quick. The life of these new fixtures are greater than 100k hours. My biggest selling point with LED is install it and forget it. If a company that I am calling on runs them 24 hours a day, they will last well over 11 years. With over 90% lumen maintenance.

With all new technology, price does continue to drop. In most industrial accounts that I sell LED to, they typically have a ROI of about 2.5 years. This takes into account cost of the new fixture, cost of replacement bulbs, ballasts, and about 10 other factors.

Question for the original post, How high are the ceilings in your garage?

Don't get me wrong, I still sell a ton of flourescent. In my garage I have T5 HO's and they are very bright.

Alot of companies who are strapped for cash are keeping their T8 fixtures and installing a LED tube instead of a flourescent bulb. Pretty cool LED fix.

InstantFit LED T8 Lamps | Philips Lighting

Let me know what you are looking for and I'll hook you up with a discount.

Please excuse the typo's.

 

[IndyGunworks]

well, I just didn't understand everything in this thread, so I bought 12 fixtures that took t12 bulbs with 24 bulbs for 200 bucks. Then I got 15 % off that price. If they don't work I am not out a ton of money. We are breaking ground on the garage today so ill be starting a thread on that as well.

 

[sbnewsom]

That doesn't suprise me that you got a good deal on T12's. The T12 is being phased out due to DOE manufacturing processes. I'm sure who ever sold them to you was just trying to get rid of their stock. Let me know when you are ready to migrate to a more efficient option. Ill hook you up.

 

[mike trible]

I have heard that the LED lights can interfere with remote garage door openers and with cell phones. Anybody experience this or have any knowledge of this?

 

[Cameramonkey]

I have heard that the LED lights can interfere with remote garage door openers and with cell phones. Anybody experience this or have any knowledge of this?

News to me. My house is full of LEDs and not a single problem.

I know they wont work with some motion sensors (and dimmers) because they dont put enough load on the sensor. I had to add a 25w incandescent to my garage. I have a mix of 3 CFL and LED bulbs over my bench and without the load of my traditional bulb in the 4th socket, they all glow dimly when the sensor turns them "off".

 

[JettaKnight]

I have heard that the LED lights can interfere with remote garage door openers and with cell phones. Anybody experience this or have any knowledge of this?

Just more propaganda spouted off by Big Tungsten.

 

[BugI02]

I have heard that the LED lights can interfere with remote garage door openers and with cell phones. Anybody experience this or have any knowledge of this?

I really doubt it. They would have to have components oscillating in the megahertz (opener) or gigahertz range (cell), and LEDs do not have such components