General Question about seller habits

[USMCEngineerGuy]

Okay, so I'm new to Indiana from IL, been here about a year now and starting to feel at home .. Being new to this group I'm really enjoying going through the threads, Now bear with me please. I'm new to the Classified way of buying and selling. as I browse through the classifieds, I see a lot of ads where people are requesting to see a LTCH before sale. my question is why is this? I am trying to think how requesting this information somehow absolves someone from any type of liability post sale, but I can't think of any way it would. especially considering Indiana no longer requires licenses to carry anymore. if I'm buying a firearm from someone, I have no problem showing my ID and giving my basic information for a bill of sale and receipt.. But what is the reason that some are requiring a carry license to sell, when by law I don't need to a permit to or license to buy from a shop and now to even carry a firearm, if i was back in IL legally I would need a FOID card to buy a gun, but I'm not, I live and work and reside in Indiana, where I'm not legally obligated to carry any type of "government permission slip" to exercise my constitutional rights so why are these adds requiring it ... It just seems odd to me.

 

[actaeon277]

This just so a seller can state that he checked for LTCH, therefore you've had a background check.

The usefulness of this is questionable.

 

[firecadet613]

Most who ask to see a LTCH will not do a receipt and will likely walk if one is required last minute and not agreed to before hand.

Constitutional Carry is very new here, most have a LTCH and it isn't an issue, but proves you were a 'proper person', at least when you were issued that license. If you plan to carry outside of Indiana, you'll still need your LTCH.

The Illinois FOID card is very foreign to most in Indiana and speaks of gov't overreach.

Glad you left that state and welcome!

 

[USMCEngineerGuy]

Most who ask to see a LTCH will not do a receipt and will likely walk if one is required last minute and not agreed to before hand.

Constitutional Carry is very new here, most have a LTCH and it isn't an issue, but proves you were a 'proper person', at least when you were issued that license. If you plan to carry outside of Indiana, you'll still need your LTCH.

The Illinois FOID card is very foreign to most in Indiana and speaks of gov't overreach.

Glad you left that state and welcome!

Hmm Thank you for your response it is insightful, but it also begs the question, why do people who private sell avoid receipts? (I'm not trying to troll or be a nuisance I'm generally curious) what I'm trying to say is, if requiring me to show a "permission slip" to prove I'm a reputable person, then why can't I request a receipt to prove I'm buying from a reputable person. just as the person is taking a chance on me that I am "without sin", I am taking a chance that, that person is "without sin". and the firearm is "without sin" who is to say that firearm I am buying was not used for something nefarious in its lifetime? with a receipt if anything where to ever come up I can show when I purchased and from whom I purchased so that I can pose a defense that the gun was not in my possession during whatever malicious situation occurred. When buying from a shop I get a receipt, and private sales are legal so why hide the sale. If I'm selling a firearm to someone and they ask me for a receipt fine here is your receipt, I have nothing to hide but also sign my bill of sale so just like you I can prove when that gun was and wasn't in my possession, to me a private sale can always be a gamble for both sides. and at the end of it all pieces of paper and permission slips are meaningless and prove nothing. just my opionion

 

[churchmouse]

This just so a seller can state that he checked for LTCH, therefore you've had a background check.

The usefulness of this is questionable.

Yup. Questionable at best.

 

[churchmouse]

Hmm Thank you for your response it is insightful, but it also begs the question, why do people who private sell avoid receipts? (I'm not trying to troll or be a nuisance I'm generally curious) what I'm trying to say is, if requiring me to show a "permission slip" to prove I'm a reputable person, then why can't I request a receipt to prove I'm buying from a reputable person. just as the person is taking a chance on me that I am "without sin", I am taking a chance that, that person is "without sin". and the firearm is "without sin" who is to say that firearm I am buying was not used for something nefarious in its lifetime? with a receipt if anything where to ever come up I can show when I purchased and from whom I purchased so that I can pose a defense that the gun was not in my possession during whatever malicious situation occurred. When buying from a shop I get a receipt, and private sales are legal so why hide the sale. If I'm selling a firearm to someone and they ask me for a receipt fine here is your receipt, I have nothing to hide but also sign my bill of sale so just like you I can prove when that gun was and wasn't in my possession, to me a private sale can always be a gamble for both sides. and at the end of it all pieces of paper and permission slips are meaningless and prove nothing. just my opionion

I like this guy.

 

[churchmouse]

Most who ask to see a LTCH will not do a receipt and will likely walk if one is required last minute and not agreed to before hand.

Constitutional Carry is very new here, most have a LTCH and it isn't an issue, but proves you were a 'proper person', at least when you were issued that license. If you plan to carry outside of Indiana, you'll still need your LTCH.

The Illinois FOID card is very foreign to most in Indiana and speaks of gov't overreach.

Glad you left that state and welcome!

It is so new here many people who are not hooked to the 24/7 news cycle have no idea what CC actually is.
My BIL and his family are 2-A all the way.
My SIL is not a news hound and travels for work. She was here for a visit yesterday and the conversation went to the GPM shooting and how the press at 1st made every attempt to vilify the hero.
When CC came up she had no idea.

 

[04FXSTS]

As a former subject of the communist state of Illinois I must say it does confuse you for a while. After living somewhere like that freedom is a new concept. Jim.

 

[firecadet613]

Hmm Thank you for your response it is insightful, but it also begs the question, why do people who private sell avoid receipts? (I'm not trying to troll or be a nuisance I'm generally curious) what I'm trying to say is, if requiring me to show a "permission slip" to prove I'm a reputable person, then why can't I request a receipt to prove I'm buying from a reputable person. just as the person is taking a chance on me that I am "without sin", I am taking a chance that, that person is "without sin". and the firearm is "without sin" who is to say that firearm I am buying was not used for something nefarious in its lifetime? with a receipt if anything where to ever come up I can show when I purchased and from whom I purchased so that I can pose a defense that the gun was not in my possession during whatever malicious situation occurred. When buying from a shop I get a receipt, and private sales are legal so why hide the sale. If I'm selling a firearm to someone and they ask me for a receipt fine here is your receipt, I have nothing to hide but also sign my bill of sale so just like you I can prove when that gun was and wasn't in my possession, to me a private sale can always be a gamble for both sides. and at the end of it all pieces of paper and permission slips are meaningless and prove nothing. just my opionion

To many, the less paperwork out there the better. I agree, who knows where it'll end up after a private sale and we all know where the 4473 ends up if that gun shop closes.

You can always ask for a receipt, it never hurts to ask.

 

[Expat]

A bill of sale is of questionable value unless you both appear before a notary and have it notarized. I can make up 10 bills of sale this afternoon showing that I sold my entire gun collection to you.

I also don't necessarily want some guy I have never met before to have my personal history like address since he now knows that I might in fact have more guns at home, beyond the 10 I sold to you.

I comply with the law. I may not knowingly sell a gun to a non proper person. The law does not require me to do a background check on you. If you feel you need one done, go to the LGS and have them do the transfer. If I have a hinky feeling about you. I just won't deal with you.

 

[Rookie]

I have never sold a gun on this board, but I have bought a few. If I were to sell, I would look at post count and time on the forum to gauge if the buyer is a "proper person".

Pink paper and photo shop isn't that hard if someone were so inclined to fool those who insist on seeing an ltch as their requirements. Ten minutes max. Post count, time on the forum, and the "buyer's" persona on the forum is a lot harder to fake.


The key word is "knowingly". Are you allowed to buy a gun? Yep. My job is done...

 

[radar8756]

I understand wanting to know if a item (gun / computer/ car) you are purchasing is stolen - and wish there was a simple way check before hand ... especially with the Turnover on some Items

I do make notes on Items I buy or sell: Date - screenname - along with the Conversation & Feedback about where to meet & agreement of price ... just in case I need to prove I was not in Possession of item before / after a certain date ... it is not Notarized - but more a better than nothing

I understand and agree with the Privacy concerns of both parties as to Copies of DL / LTCH that could be used for nefarious acts

 

[TJ Kackowski]

I like this guy.

@USMCEngineerGuy ... You may not recognize it, but his is some high praise right here!

To your original question, I've bought and sold on this forum.

When I'm selling, I almost always note in my ads that if I don't know you personally, I will want to see your IN driver's licence and your LTCH when we meet. If I even remember to check during the meeting, I'm looking to see that the street address matches on both cards. To my simple way of thinking, the IN driver's licence proves residence and the LTCH required a background check. If both street addresses match, I believe I've done my due diligence to verify that you're a proper person. Is this foolproof ... heck no, but it works for me and that's all that matters as the seller.

When I'm buying, I will not respond to any ad asking for a receipt. I will show IN driver's licence and LTCH if asked, but those are few and far between. I suspect for the same reasons I noted above.

If you stick around this forum (and why wouldn't you with CM's glowing praise), you'll pick up on who's a regular and who isn't. If you get to the point of selling/buying in the classifieds, you'll also pick up on who's GTG and who to avoid.

 

[Usmccookie]

It's sellers choice for sellers reasons. Around here, it's split on who feels comfortable doing a bill of sale. Therefore a seller will immediately lose half of their potential customer base. Realistically, it's about feeling warm and fuzzy about not selling to a "bad guy".

 

[jerrob]

Hmm Thank you for your response it is insightful, but it also begs the question, why do people who private sell avoid receipts? (I'm not trying to troll or be a nuisance I'm generally curious) what I'm trying to say is, if requiring me to show a "permission slip" to prove I'm a reputable person, then why can't I request a receipt to prove I'm buying from a reputable person. just as the person is taking a chance on me that I am "without sin", I am taking a chance that, that person is "without sin". and the firearm is "without sin" who is to say that firearm I am buying was not used for something nefarious in its lifetime? with a receipt if anything where to ever come up I can show when I purchased and from whom I purchased so that I can pose a defense that the gun was not in my possession during whatever malicious situation occurred. When buying from a shop I get a receipt, and private sales are legal so why hide the sale. If I'm selling a firearm to someone and they ask me for a receipt fine here is your receipt, I have nothing to hide but also sign my bill of sale so just like you I can prove when that gun was and wasn't in my possession, to me a private sale can always be a gamble for both sides. and at the end of it all pieces of paper and permission slips are meaningless and prove nothing. just my opionion

You ask a lot of questions..................... You a cop?
You HAVE to answer truthfully because I've asked you..................I watch alot of movies and know the law.
Welcome to Indiana and INGO, and congrats on putting that shot-hole state in your rearview mirror.

 

[wcd]

You ask a lot of questions..................... You a cop?
You HAVE to answer truthfully because I've asked you..................I watch alot of movies and know the law.
Welcome to Indiana and INGO, and congrats on putting that shot-hole state in your rearview mirror.

possibly a alphabet guy? The whole Illinois thing makes me wonder!

 

[Expat]

Part of me is always a little bit troubled by these discussions. I can see lefties using it as evidence that even right thinking Hoosier gun owners feel that there should be universal background checks on private sales. But I am probably a bit paranoid thinking that lefties or even gubmint types would infiltrate our little group....

 

[bwframe]

To the OP...

Thank you for your detailed contribution and elaboration. Please take it easy on our boomer old eyes and use paragraphs. First inclination when seeing a huge glob of words like that is to skip over it.

On to the subject, it took a bit for lot of us to come around to appreciating real freedom and minimal legal requirement for a private sale in Indiana.

What it boils down to is whether or not you choose to report any personal info for anything other than verification of residence and possibly proper person status.

Is there risk of innocently ending up with a stolen firearm? Sure, but that can be mostly eliminated by knowing who you are buying from. As mentioned above, checking post history and feedback allows one to feel as though they have done due diligence.

The other side of the situation is to only go to FFL's for initial purchase or transferring a private sale.

A big part of the nuance of INGO is that we are a discussion forum that focuses on guns, 2A, local issues, etc. The classified section is a perk for those of us participating in discussion. Not the other way around.

 

[Jaybird1980]

You do not have an obligation to prove you're selling to a proper person.

You can not knowingly sell to an improper person.

Showing a LTCH or Indiana DL is only good for proving you're an Indiana resident in my opinion.

The more unnecessary hoops you willingly jump through only encourages the antis more.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

A bill of sale is of questionable value unless you both appear before a notary and have it notarized. I can make up 10 bills of sale this afternoon showing that I sold my entire gun collection to you.

I also don't necessarily want some guy I have never met before to have my personal history like address since he now knows that I might in fact have more guns at home, beyond the 10 I sold to you.

I comply with the law. I may not knowingly sell a gun to a non proper person. The law does not require me to do a background check on you. If you feel you need one done, go to the LGS and have them do the transfer. If I have a hinky feeling about you. I just won't deal with you.

Nailed it.

Part of me is always a little bit troubled by these discussions. I can see lefties using it as evidence that even right thinking Hoosier gun owners feel that there should be universal background checks on private sales. But I am probably a bit paranoid thinking that lefties or even gubmint types would infiltrate our little group....

Nailed it again.