Greenwood Kroger cop plays intimidation card, draws no response.

[jeremy]

IF I owned the place and IF I put up a sign to that effect it WOULD NOT just say NO GUNS or NO WEAPONS. It WOULD be at the ENTRANCE to the building so it would not be just a rule or a suggestion to leave. It would tell you in no uncertain terms you are NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER THIS BUILDING WITH what ever I didn't want in there. I WOULD NOT be ASKING YOU TO LEAVE if I told you anything. I would be plainly TELLING YOU TO GET OUT AND GET OUT NOW and I'd consider that doing you a favor. One word even remotely similar to any of this crap in this thread or move in any direction other than back the way you came and me and my hired help would be giving you a lesson in what GET OUT means to me.

When the game playing pretend illiterates come here whining about it that's exactly what I think they desearve and the warning is a favor, more than should get.

Jack you know very well that attitude would land you on the wrong end of a Lawsuit quickly...

 

[jsharmon7]

Ummm, where is this coming from?

Is this some hybird with the provisions of the law in Texas?

Well don't leave us hanging! My understanding (from INGO) is that "No firearms" is a warning, "Anyone possessing a firearm is prohibited from entering the building" is trespassing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

BUT, is a non-standard sign in any random location considered "written notice?" There are some stores that have so much BS advertising and notices plastered on, beside, or above their doors that I doubt anyone looks at them. Also, is strictly "written" notice considered enough, since there are some people who can not read, for whatever reason, or whose eyesight may be bad enough that if presented with a 8.5x11" sheet of paper hanging by the door that has 35 bulleted rules, dress codes, and regulations, that they may not be ABLE to read it. There are a couple of bars downtown that I walk by every day on my way to work, and they have such lists, covering everything from appropriate forms of ID, behavior, dress code, acceptable colors for your clothes, etc.

Would missing that justify being tackled while standing peacefully inside if you were carrying (or even if they SUSPECTED you were carrying)?

As an aside, I stood and read one of those lists for about 10 minutes one day, and one of the things listed was "no shorts which extend below the calves." Are "shorts which extend below the calves" also known as "pants?"

No, the litmus test is if a person intentionally ignores said sign. I'm not going to argue how the sign is posted.

 

[ATM]

No, the litmus test is if a person intentionally ignores said sign. I'm not going to argue how the sign is posted.

What litmus test is this?

Even if I intentionally ignore their well posted shorts rule, you think they can reasonably resort to force? Ha!

They better tell me to leave first.

You can't treat every rule as if it were trespassing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What litmus test is this?

Even if I intentionally ignore their well posted shorts rule, you think they can reasonably resort to force? Ha!

They better tell me to leave first.

You can't treat every rule as if it were trespassing.

I'm not advocating anyone resort to force, ever (unless in fear for their safety). I'm just letting you know, that by law, it is an option. Do you at least admit that the law says that force can be used by a private citizen to remove a trespasser?

 

[jeremy]

I'm not advocating anyone resort to force, ever (unless in fear for their safety). I'm just letting you know, that by law, it is an option. Do you at least admit that the law says that force can be used by a private citizen to remove a trespasser?

I will acknowledge that, IF, you acknowledge that if someone were to do that the party being tossed would be seeing a pay check in the future as well...

 

[ATM]

I'm not advocating anyone resort to force, ever (unless in fear for their safety). I'm just letting you know, that by law, it is an option. Do you at least admit that the law says that force can be used by a private citizen to remove a trespasser?

It's not a legal option for enforcing your wishes, rules, posted policies, guidelines, etc.

There is a narrow allowance specifically for trespass:

...if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass.

It's not a catch-all get-out-of liability shield to mandle, duck walk or throw people on their faces when they don't treat your rules like laws.

 

[jbombelli]

It's not a legal option for enforcing your wishes, rules, posted policies, guidelines, etc.

There is a narrow allowance specifically for trespass:

...if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass.

It's not a catch-all get-out-of liability shield to mandle, duck walk or throw people on their faces when they don't treat your rules like laws.

Certain people around here seem to think that the phrase "reasonably believes is necessary" is all-encompassing, and the statute gives them the right to manhandle people if they feel like it.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding.

 

[Benny]

OK, I have to ask...WTF is a duck walk?

 

[jeremy]

OK, I have to ask...WTF is a duck walk?

Something one used to have to do at MEPS before one could join the Army...

 

[ThrottleJockey]

In Minnesota when we first passed the law allowing carry there was a provision about the signage carrying the weight of law but it also laid out VERY specific guidelines that the signs must follow in regards to size, placement, color, font, letter size, and content. They tried that to create some sort of "standard" for the legal signage. It failed miserably and was removed from our carry law within very short time.

 

[lovemachine]

Something one used to have to do at MEPS before one could join the Army...

You enjoyed it too, didn't you?

 

[USMC_0311]

You enjoyed it too, didn't you?

I bet he still does it.

 

[E5RANGER375]

yeah the duck walk, they made you walk diagonally across the room and then back. then after that I remember going behind the curtain (your all in the same room in your underwear) and the doc saying "bend over and spread your cheeks" I was like WHATTTTTT!?!?!?!?!?!?! (he firmly repeated himself, lol), I was told later thats how they looked to see if you were gay or not, but I dont know if thats true. how about the personal one on one interview guys in the doctors personal office? that was intimidating! the doc was so old i bet he was grabbing sack back in WWII.
when I went to MEPS it was in the building where jillians (bar) (if its even still a jillians) is now downtown indy.

 

[USMC_0311]

When I went to MEPS it was a woman doctor checking our junk.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

MEPS was no problem, it was later during basic when they gave us our shots and issued our gear that was a pita (literally). That antibiotic shot they gave us in the butt cheek felt like they stuck a golf ball in my buttocks...it hurt for days!

 

[Jack Ryan]

feel free to phrase it any way you want. Nobody, including me, has said they'd stay once they were told to leave. But know this: if I'm walking to the door after being ordered out or you don't say something first, and you assault me, bad things will happen to you. That is a promise, Mr Internet Tough Guy.

I recommend you learn how the term "reasonable" applies to the use of force. You and Kutnupe both. And I recommend you learn about another concept called "disparity of force" before you unreasonably gang up on someone.

If you are truly as quick to grab help and go hands-on as you say you are, and the guy killed you and your help, I'll vote to acquit if I'm on the jury. Think about that. Think about that long and hard.

You know the rodeo isn't a one man show. Lot's of people been there, a few more than once.

I'm no tuff guy that's why I'll make sure I don't need to be and this is all hypothetical for the main reason I'll never own a grocery store but it's not that far different from a lot of other things.

Warning on the door and told to get out, that's one extra. If I owned the store you would be messing with my money, making my job harder, and been warned at least once, may be twice, that's all it takes and the warnings and reactions vary with the mood I'm in but it get's bad pretty quick when those are involved. If I'm not happy on my own place you can bet the guy causing me to be unhappy is going to be as unhappy as I an all the help I can get can make them.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Jack you know very well that attitude would land you on the wrong end of a Lawsuit quickly...

Hypothetical law suit and those are even more common that real ones and you can get a real one for just breathing.

 

[Benny]

So, WTF is a duck walk?

 

[jbombelli]

You know the rodeo isn't a one man show. Lot's of people been there, a few more than once.

I'm no tuff guy that's why I'll make sure I don't need to be and this is all hypothetical for the main reason I'll never own a grocery store but it's not that far different from a lot of other things.

Warning on the door and told to get out, that's one extra. If I owned the store you would be messing with my money, making my job harder, and been warned at least once, may be twice, that's all it takes and the warnings and reactions vary with the mood I'm in but it get's bad pretty quick when those are involved. If I'm not happy on my own place you can bet the guy causing me to be unhappy is going to be as unhappy as I an all the help I can get can make them.

Again, study up on the Reasonable Man Doctrine, because your assertions regarding the use of force are somewhat less than "reasonable", and if you followed through with what you said you'd do, you'd end up in jail or sued, and probably both, and you'd most likely lose in court on both ends.