Greenwood Kroger cop plays intimidation card, draws no response.

[public servant]

I'd have just asked if everything was OK...

 

[finity]

I find an interesting dynamic in this thread:

On the one side you have the ones who feel that the cops actions were nothing short of antagonistic & that he was trying to elicit some response from the OP. We even have several people who feel that they would like to be able to confront the cop about his overbearing actions if not for the potential for retaliation from the cop.

On the other side you have the cops & some supporters claiming that the cop did absolutely nothing wrong. He was simply checking him out & keeping an eye on him. & that the OP & those who felt the cop was being a, well,...instigator should not feel threatened in any way.

BUT THEN...

As soon as someone suggests doing THE EXACT SAME THING TO A COP those same cops & those same supporters offer a veiled threat of "just try it see how it goes".

So, is it cool what the cop did or not?

If what the cop did was A-OK then why would the cop have ANY reaction at all to a non-LEO doing EXACTLY the same thing to them? & if the cop could reasonably have a reaction from some kind of perceived "threat" then why would the same reaction from a non-LEO be considered grounds for additional harrassment or even a concern of "get[ing] thrown to the ground and/or shot!"?

Are you trying to say that we're all equal but some are more equal than others?

 

[E5RANGER375]

I find an interesting dynamic in this thread:

On the one side you have the ones who feel that the cops actions were nothing short of antagonistic & that he was trying to elicit some response from the OP. We even have several people who feel that they would like to be able to confront the cop about his overbearing actions if not for the potential for retaliation from the cop.

On the other side you have the cops & some supporters claiming that the cop did absolutely nothing wrong. He was simply checking him out & keeping an eye on him. & that the OP & those who felt the cop was being a, well,...instigator should not feel threatened in any way.

BUT THEN...

As soon as someone suggests doing THE EXACT SAME THING TO A COP those same cops & those same supporters offer a veiled threat of "just try it see how it goes".

So, is it cool what the cop did or not?

If what the cop did was A-OK then why would the cop have ANY reaction at all to a non-LEO doing EXACTLY the same thing to them? & if the cop could reasonably have a reaction from some kind of perceived "threat" then why would the same reaction from a non-LEO be considered grounds for additional harrassment or even a concern of "get[ing] thrown to the ground and/or shot!"?

Are you trying to say that we're all equal but some are more equal than others?

YEP!

we already know cops are elite citizens not subject to the same laws or punishments as us peon working class non public servant citizens. I dont care if your a cop, if you dont see what I just pointed out then you are in denial. its the truth. there is and always will be a double standard until we the people stand up to end it. just like state reps can carry guns in the statehouse but the people who they SERVE cannot. what bull ****!

hell, is taking a verbal bashing on internet all that bad when you still get all the other perks and get out of jail free cards that go with being a cop? or do we need to end the 1st amendment too to make you feel warm and fuzzy to complete your benefits package?

 

[Kutnupe14]

You don't have the right to stalk people. There are laws prohibiting harassment. Was it you following this guy or something?

Neither apply...

IC 35-45-10-1
"Stalk" defined
Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "stalk" means a knowing or an intentional course of conduct involving repeated or continuing harassment of another person that would cause a reasonable person to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened. The term does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity.

IC 35-45-10-2
"Harassment" defined
Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "harassment" means conduct directed toward a victim that includes but is not limited to repeated or continuing impermissible contact that would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim to suffer emotional distress. Harassment does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity, such as lawful picketing pursuant to labor disputes or lawful employer-related activities pursuant to labor disputes.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Neither apply...

IC 35-45-10-1
"Stalk" defined
Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "stalk" means a knowing or an intentional course of conduct involving repeated or continuing harassment of another person that would cause a reasonable person to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened. The term does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity.

IC 35-45-10-2
"Harassment" defined
Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "harassment" means conduct directed toward a victim that includes but is not limited to repeated or continuing impermissible contact that would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim to suffer emotional distress. Harassment does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity, such as lawful picketing pursuant to labor disputes or lawful employer-related activities pursuant to labor disputes.

we all know a cop wouldnt be held to it anyways even if it was defined as that. come on. why do we keep trying to look for justice in a system that gives none?

 

[Jack Burton]

If a cop is playing non-verbal intimidation games then an easy way to get him to stop is to make it boring for him to continue. Cell phones are wonderful for this.

By the time I was thru the cash register I would have had my phone out and calling someone one... it doesn't matter who, even just pushing a few random buttons is sufficient if you can hold up your end of the non-existent conversation.

Unless you have ice cream melting in the sack then just grab a bench in front of the store and sit there enjoying a good talk on the phone. A couple of random noises uttered every few minutes is all you need from your side. And a couple of "eye rolls" at the officer as if to say you can't believe you got suckered into this call. If he is standing close enough to hear you then throw in some random statements such as, "look, I don't care what your momma told you, you cannot roast a deer head in the oven."

He is either going to have to stand there... stand there... stand there... stand there... or leave you alone. If he continues to stand there looking at you then it becomes a normal, polite and very citizenly thing to interrupt your call and ask him if you can help him with anything.

If he is across the room staring at you then start a game of simon sez. While still on the phone get up and slowly walk away. The moment he makes a step towards your direction, stop walking. Wait a minute and then start up again, still on the phone. When he moves again, you stop again, obviously distracted by your conversation. With a little bit of cleverness you'll have everyone in the store staring at him as he stutter-steps around the store.

 

[Hammerhead]

If only you'd have been able to somehow pull off the "Bees" bit from Tommy Boy.

Or perhaps just began to run in circles screaming.

Or turn around and start barking madly.

Just doing something as abnormal and outlandish as possible, just don't acknowledge the officer. Then suddenly stop, walk to your car and leave.

 

[public servant]

Jesus people...grow a set and ask him what he wants.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i probly would have started to video tape him. anything i could have legally done to make him feel uncomfortable thats what I would have done. is cleaning your gun in public illegal? nope, LMAO

 

[Timjoebillybob]

To integraholic, no one with an SR20DET powered S30 280Z would be following that guy around.

Of course they wouldn't, they couldn't keep up with a guy on foot.

Beats me. Try it.

You ain't got a set unless you do it.

To both of the above, I think I'm going to have to try it.

I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face and end up buying him a beer.

Heck, if I don't get proned out and jack booted, I'll buy you and the officer a beer.

YOUR MOM! (It's sad when elementary come backs are the best you can come up with)

Elementary come backs are the best, simple and to the point.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Jesus people...grow a set and ask him what he wants.

I would have for sure. he wouldnt have liked that my set is bigger than his,

 

[Kirk Freeman]

As soon as someone suggests doing THE EXACT SAME THING TO A COP those same cops & those same supporters offer a veiled threat of "just try it see how it goes".

The important thing is that the OP was calm and did nothing wrong.

Who knows why the officer acted the way he did. Bad day, wife yelled at him, the OP looked like somebody and he wanted to be sure, he wanted to look at the OP's car, he steped out for a smoke, could be dozens of things.

We see this a lot among gun owners, they want to be seen as "the good guy". If the police are looking at you, talking to you, or stopping you on an alleged traffic citation, you are not the good guy to them.

What is important for us as peaceable gun carriers is to remain cool, be aware of the police tactic of baiting (being drawn into a confrontation) and not worry about what someone else is thinking even the police. Just smile and blow kisses, it drives them nuts.

 

[Kutnupe14]

YEP!

we already know cops are elite citizens not subject to the same laws or punishments as us peon working class non public servant citizens. I dont care if your a cop, if you dont see what I just pointed out then you are in denial. its the truth. there is and always will be a double standard until we the people stand up to end it. just like state reps can carry guns in the statehouse but the people who they SERVE cannot. what bull ****!

hell, is taking a verbal bashing on internet all that bad when you still get all the other perks and get out of jail free cards that go with being a cop? or do we need to end the 1st amendment too to make you feel warm and fuzzy to complete your benefits package?

The officer's actions were rude and unprofessional. He shouldn't have done it. However, from a legal standpoint there's no issue. Now, a complaint to the department may have been in order. OP should have turned around and asked what his "problem" was, and confronted the situation directly.

If the situation had been reversed, I would turn and ask if I could "help" the citizen. He's done nothing illegal, so I'm prohibited from making him identify himself or having him stop following me. Other than that, there's nothing more I could do but sit there and stare or keep going. I unlike the citizen, I have no one to file a complaint with.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Not argueing that I do not have a Firm grasp of the legalese that is written. That is why I generally pay for a Lawyer to translate it for me...

I do believe that the Bold and Underlined sections below apply?!
If not then?!

IC 35-45-2-1
Intimidation
Sec. 1. (a) A person who communicates a threat to another person, with the intent:
(1) that the other person engage in conduct against the other person's will;
(2) that the other person be placed in fear of retaliation for a prior lawful act; or
(3) of causing:
(A) a dwelling, a building, or another structure; or
(B) a vehicle;
to be evacuated;
c) "Threat" means an expression, by words or action, of an intention to:
(6) expose the person threatened to hatred, contempt, disgrace, or ridicule;

I don't have a firm grasp of the law either, more like a pudding grasp. But I think c 6 might apply. Unless he thought the OP had a hot behind that is.

 

[E5RANGER375]

The officer's actions were rude and unprofessional. He shouldn't have done it. However, from a legal standpoint there's no issue. Now, a complaint to the department may have been in order. OP should have turned around and asked what his "problem" was, and confronted the situation directly.

If the situation had been reversed, I would turn and ask if I could "help" the citizen. He's done nothing illegal, so I'm prohibited from making him identify himself or having him stop following me. Other than that, there's nothing more I could do but sit there and stare or keep going. I unlike the citizen, I have no one to file a complaint with.

in all seriousness i would have asked him if there is a problem? and got his name and filed a formal written complaint to make sure it goes in his file.

well you and i see eye to eye more than not. i dont think your the type of cop who I would have to worry about oppressing me to be honest and thats a compliment to you.

this cop however got off on trying to make this LEGAL citizen feel intimidated. its wrong, wrong, wrong wrong. and where i grew up if anyone did it they would get their ass beat.
the cop was there earning money for a part time job and wanted to look tough in front of the kroger people. simple. i bet he isnt a fan of the constitution.

OP, you can still file a formal complaint against this officer to IMPD and i recomend it! its not hard to find out who he is since he is technically a kroger employee. so I would also file a formal written complaint to that kroger store and to the corporate office about his JBT tactics. maybe he will get fired from his part time job. that would be the best outcome since we know IMPD will do nothing to him most likely.

 

[Hammerhead]

If he is across the room staring at you then start a game of simon sez. While still on the phone get up and slowly walk away. The moment he makes a step towards your direction, stop walking. Wait a minute and then start up again, still on the phone. When he moves again, you stop again, obviously distracted by your conversation. With a little bit of cleverness you'll have everyone in the store staring at him as he stutter-steps around the store.

Or begin just pacing back and forth looking at your watch every so often muttering about your ride, your volley ball named Wilson, or your horrid case of swamp ass. Or all three. With or without your phone.

 

[finity]

The law requires a communication of a threat. It should be pretty obvious, by the plain English used in the statute.

What threat was communicated, other than in the OP's head?

Maybe you should ask Kirk Freeman if the cop's actions were against the law. He'll tell you the same, if he's honest.

The statute requires that the threat be "communicated" but it doesn't have to be by VERBAL communication ONLY.

(c) "Threat" means an expression, by words or action, of an intention to:...

Of course, the cops actions "aren't against the law". The courts have determined repeatedly that the laws don't equally apply to cops as they do the rest of us.

If we tried the same thing against someone, or god forbid, especially a cop as noted in my post above, then we have the standard reply - "try it & just see what happens. I dare you."

No I'm not saying ALL COPS are this way but it's prevelant enough to be accepted as "expected".

 

[Kirk Freeman]

A friend of mine who is African-American has been subjected to this before.

Her solution is to take photos with her cell phone of the store detective as if he is a fashion model.

"Work the runway! You're a tiger! Now give me moody! That's it more, more, now not so much."

 

[E5RANGER375]

Or begin just pacing back and forth looking at your watch every so often muttering about your ride, your volley ball named Wilson, or your horrid case of swamp ass. Or all three. With or without your phone.

no never do this. you never wanna give them probable cause to take you in on a mental evaluation hold. then your boned. even if your joking I would never do that especially to a cop who is already being a dick. its like delivering yourself on a silver platter to him.

 

[Hammerhead]

no never do this. you never wanna give them probable cause to take you in on a mental evaluation hold. then your boned. even if your joking I would never do that especially to a cop who is already being a dick. its like delivering yourself on a silver platter to him.

What, you've never stood somewhere complaining out loud about something? I wasn't saying having a full blown conversation with yourself (although that's a tactic), just complaining about something uncomfortable or strange.