Gun/ammo storage in Basement

[Cameramonkey]

May want to consider building up a 3-6" or so layer of concrete under the safe to hopefully prevent water getting in the safe in case of a minor flood like a water line break or sump pump failure. Major flooding not much you can do if you aren't home when it happens.

I'll second this. And a 12" tall concrete platform will also make it easier to get in and out of the safe. And something you can bolt it down to. Amd if you get a little flooding, your stuff will be good.

 

[led4thehed2]

Like others, I too run a dehumidifier at all times, and keep stuff off the floor in case of flooding/water back
-up/whatever aquatic FUBAR situation you may encounter. Learned a few new tricks here as well, thanks for commenting, all!

 

[yeti rider]

I understand the thought of not having a safe in a basement because of fire, but, if you are any kind of rural, your whole house will most likely burn. That means your safe that wasn't in the basement will still probably end up in the basement. Flooded or charcoaled, I think having good insurance is all you can do.

 

[Patched]

I wanted to circle back and thank everyone for their input and advice. This has turned into a science project for me - lol. I got a remote hygrometer and am now reading at two locations in the basement as well as upstairs. In early October temp was about 65 deg, and relative humidity was a touch over 50%. So I got a portable dehumidifier from Honeywell. We'll see how it does in the middle of summer, next year.

I've noticed that the humidity fluctuates. For example, during times of rain, I have to run the machine to stay below 50%. Today, with a light covering of snow, it is only 46% From everything I've read, it seems staying 40 - 50% is a good idea.

I've also come around to the idea of mil spec ammo cans on a shelf above the concrete floor.

 

[Gravyman]

Just toss it in a sealed ammo box with dessicants (buy them in bulk on amazon) and you'll be good for years and years

 

[Creedmoor]

I wanted to circle back and thank everyone for their input and advice. This has turned into a science project for me - lol. I got a remote hygrometer and am now reading at two locations in the basement as well as upstairs. In early October temp was about 65 deg, and relative humidity was a touch over 50%. So I got a portable dehumidifier from Honeywell. We'll see how it does in the middle of summer, next year.

I've noticed that the humidity fluctuates. For example, during times of rain, I have to run the machine to stay below 50%. Today, with a light covering of snow, it is only 46% From everything I've read, it seems staying 40 - 50% is a good idea.

I've also come around to the idea of mil spec ammo cans on a shelf above the concrete floor.

You dont have those problems and electric bills with the simple task of installing the correct size GoldenRod.
No dehumidify, no chemical tubs to check and change.
I can open the door of any of my vaults and the temp will be 55° to 74° depending on time if the year. Moisture will be in the upper 30's to low 40s
ll while being in a shop with no hvac.
A woodstove with propane preheat when I need to work in it.
KISS, keep it simple stupid.

 

[mike4]

Short version: Goldenrods are not adequate protection in basements with high or highly variable humidity levels.

I've been aware of them for decades and I'm not saying they are not useful, but the descriptions I just searched up for Goldenrods are not really functionally accurate descriptions and I think it overstates their capability. They certainly are not giving off "dry air" as I see incorrectly stated, obviously they can only heat the air.

You are only drying the air when water molecules are removed from the air, such as absorbed out of the air by a desiccant, or condensed onto a cold surface in a dehumidifier and drained or pumped out of the air volume you are trying to influence.

Relative humidity percentages are relative to the maximum number of water molecules you can suspend in a volume of air, beyond which water will condense in liquid form on any surface. That amount of water increases with increasing temperature. That's why we see water condensing on objects colder than the air temperature in a room even when the relative humidity is well under 100%, like a rifle just brought inside in winter, or a cold beverage bottle just removed from the refrigerator.

So Goldenrods are doing 3 things, one of which has only slight effect. The air inside a safe is going to have roughly the same number of water molecules per cubic foot of air as the room containing the safe. By raising the temperature inside the safe, the relative humidty (affecting the likelihood of rust and condensation) is reduced. Temp increases also increase pressure slightly, air gaps around the safe door allow air inside the safe to increase in volume, driving a small fraction of air out of the safe, carrying away its same small fraction of suspended water molecules out of the safe with it. I will do the math sometimes using the volume of a typical gun safe, but this effect should be minor compared to the benefit of lowering the internal RH%.

The second effect is slightly increasing the surface temperature of all the safe contents; preventing your guns from being that cold beverage bottle above.

So a Goldenrod may be keep you just on the right edge of staying out of trouble when temperature and humidity conditions are fairly stable and changing slowly. I'd feel pretty comfortable using them in a safe located in the environmentally controlled main levels of your house. They start to worry me with the daily temp cycles and widely varying humidity conditions in a garage; it may work there but you may be riding way closer to the safety margin more often than you know. Maybe even getting the start of condensation followed by re-evaporation in cycles where rust in gradually developing, but you are reversing it by wiping them down with oil often enough, or your coating of oil is doing enough to prevent visible rust.

Getting into basements in Indiana, it is absolutely unwise to rely only on a Goldenrod unless you know you have a really dry basement across all seasons, weather and site-soil conditions. If you ever get wet spots, water running from the base of a wall, a water softener or furnace AC drain that run into a floor drain; those are all sources of water to evaporate into the air and raise the humidity. Some new basements are better sealed on the exterior before back filling, but most older reinforced concrete walls and concrete block walls can continually conduct moisture from the outside to replace water that is evaporated off the inside surface into the basement air. That can be a large amount of water that is flooding invisibly into basement air, that is going to find it's way inside anything that is not sealed like a military ammo can or Pelican case, and is going to overwhelm that slight helpful push in the right direction that a Goldenrod can provide.

As a side note, remember sealed cases depend on stable temps. If it gets too cold that fixed number of water molecules in the fixed air volume in an ammo can reaches 100% RH and everything inside is wet. I damaged the finish on 2 guns closed in a Pelican case when I left them in the cold for an extended time, including the aluminum receiver on a 10/22 back when they used to properly anodize them instead of just painting them. A properly size desiccant pack extends the margin of temp safety by pulling some of that water out of the internal air, but need to be dried out in the oven when the case is opened and closed. Close once on a new or freshly recycled desiccant pack for best long term storage of ammo or guns. I bought a half dozen sheet metal cased desiccant packs for situations where I case a gun inside the house this time of year, then know it's going to be carried outdoors into the cold or sit out in a cold vehicle for hours/overnight.

In a sometimes damp basement without dehumidification I know I have cool stable temps for ammo storage, but rely on sealed ammo cans without desiccant to exclude humidity, and I try to seal up ammo cans intended for long term storage in the dead of winter when the air I'm sealing inside is already very dry.

If you have a high basement humidity all or part of the year, you need to dehumidify or keep the safe upstairs. People are fairly comfortable once you get down to 55% RH. From experience storing equipment and tools I do not feel comfortable with anything over 45% RH. Humidity is an equillbrium process where some water is condensing on and evaporating off surfaces all the time; that is why surfaces will corrode well under 100% humidity. Metal would be best with the lowest humidity you can create, 40% is about as low as you want to go to avoid drying out wood; gunstocks, musical instruments, furniture. A lot of humidity instruments have pretty wide measurement +/- so I prefer to keep safe location room humidity <= 40%, and right at 40% RH as ideal when wood is involved.

 

[Patched]

Mike - thanks for taking the time for the detailed write-up. I'll have to read it a couple of times to better understand all the points you've made. Based on your post and those of others on this thread, I believe I am on the right track. I will be using mil spec ammo cans with the reusable silica gel packs. I'm going to continue with the little dehumidifier as I have other things I do not want to rust - a table saw and my gym set up. Sounds like I need to lower my humidity target to 40-45%.









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