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Gun shop ca 1934
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AdventureTeamJoe
Marksman
Great scene. Will have to give this a watch. Seems the only thing he didn't walk out with was a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
Wow, I know what I'm watching tomorrow. To walk out of a gun store unmolested with a stock Tommy AND a BAR? I would seriously consider giving up redheads,
Serious business Spear...….me too...…...maybe...
Don
Why shop?
i was a lad in Detroit circa 1966 when the mailman knocked at the door with a package for Dad.
inside was a $25 Colt 1911 surplus SA arsenal rebuild he ordered out of a NRA magazine.
He always said he should have gotten two of the M1 carbines they listed as $15 ea.
He already had an M1 Garand he got in a pawn shop for $55 bucks.
A Springfield Oct-41 manufacture.
Both mine now.
None of that CMP bull**** back then.
Gun shows were surplus city WWII stuff everywhere cheap.
i was a lad in Detroit circa 1966 when the mailman knocked at the door with a package for Dad.
inside was a $25 Colt 1911 surplus SA arsenal rebuild he ordered out of a NRA magazine.
He always said he should have gotten two of the M1 carbines they listed as $15 ea.
He already had an M1 Garand he got in a pawn shop for $55 bucks.
A Springfield Oct-41 manufacture.
Both mine now.
None of that CMP bull**** back then.
Gun shows were surplus city WWII stuff everywhere cheap.
I also loved the movie, which got me curious regarding how much of it is true. There seems to be a fair amount of conflicting information regarding a lot of things about this entire episode in history. I found this article to be one of the better researched versions about the guns that were used, although even it includes contradictory information from different sources...
https://firearmslawyer.net/blog/frank-hamer-and-his-guns/
Among the things commonly believed; the gun Hamer used was a Remington Model 8 in .35 Remington that he special ordered with a "police only" 15-round magazine (or 20 round depending on the source) at a sporting-goods store. Hamer also carried a Colt 1911 in .38 Super.
There is one source that says Hinton used a BAR that was obtained from the government through a congressman, and another source that says he used a Colt Monitor obtained from Hamer.
There seems to be agreement that Oakley fired first with a Remington Model 8 and killed Barrow instantly with a head shot.
Then, there is this article, which makes the case, based largely on the photographs taken at the scene, that the guns used included a regular Remington Model 8 without an extended magazine, a BAR, and 3 shotguns. This doesn't preclude the possibility that Hamer used a Model 8 with the extended magazine since there are only 5 guns in the photographs, and there were 6 officers at the ambush, so presumably there is a gun missing from the photos. However, the fact that Hamer's son erroneously identified a Remington Model 81 as the gun his father used, and this interview seems to be the source for the "police only" magazine part of the story, makes it debatable whether he really had a rifle with an extended magazine or not. Considering that the BAR in the photos doesn't have a magazine, it is also possible that the Model 8 had the extended magazine, but it was removed before the rifle was placed on top of the car.
The Great Model 8 & 81 » Frank Hamer?s Rifle
I'm going to keep looking into this as I have time. I find it fascinating that there are so many conflicting versions about what happened considering how famous the whole episode is. Apparently, since the officers involved represented 3 different agencies, there are 3 different "official" versions of what happened just from them! Then you have family members, 2nd-hand accounts, politicians, other government agencies, historians, and movie makers mucking things up further.
https://firearmslawyer.net/blog/frank-hamer-and-his-guns/
Among the things commonly believed; the gun Hamer used was a Remington Model 8 in .35 Remington that he special ordered with a "police only" 15-round magazine (or 20 round depending on the source) at a sporting-goods store. Hamer also carried a Colt 1911 in .38 Super.
There is one source that says Hinton used a BAR that was obtained from the government through a congressman, and another source that says he used a Colt Monitor obtained from Hamer.
There seems to be agreement that Oakley fired first with a Remington Model 8 and killed Barrow instantly with a head shot.
Then, there is this article, which makes the case, based largely on the photographs taken at the scene, that the guns used included a regular Remington Model 8 without an extended magazine, a BAR, and 3 shotguns. This doesn't preclude the possibility that Hamer used a Model 8 with the extended magazine since there are only 5 guns in the photographs, and there were 6 officers at the ambush, so presumably there is a gun missing from the photos. However, the fact that Hamer's son erroneously identified a Remington Model 81 as the gun his father used, and this interview seems to be the source for the "police only" magazine part of the story, makes it debatable whether he really had a rifle with an extended magazine or not. Considering that the BAR in the photos doesn't have a magazine, it is also possible that the Model 8 had the extended magazine, but it was removed before the rifle was placed on top of the car.
The Great Model 8 & 81 » Frank Hamer?s Rifle
I'm going to keep looking into this as I have time. I find it fascinating that there are so many conflicting versions about what happened considering how famous the whole episode is. Apparently, since the officers involved represented 3 different agencies, there are 3 different "official" versions of what happened just from them! Then you have family members, 2nd-hand accounts, politicians, other government agencies, historians, and movie makers mucking things up further.
Last edited:
indy1919a4
Master
- Jan 7, 2011
- 2,009
- 48
If you look at the shoot out car, you will see that the bullets went through on one side, but if you go to the other side of the car the bullets did not have enough force to exit the other side of the car. That side is pockmarked from the rounds impacting on the inside of the car. (Of course a few of those bullets where slowed down more by going through other things before they hit the inside of the car)
Shows how much steel they used in cars in those days.. Also how a Tommy gun was not good for penetrating cars in those days
Shows how much steel they used in cars in those days.. Also how a Tommy gun was not good for penetrating cars in those days
indy1919a4
Master
- Jan 7, 2011
- 2,009
- 48
Wow nice photos, Reverse Engineering history is always tough, but in this case Mr Hamer made it worst but refusing all interviews
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/9/22/frank-hamer-legendary-lawman/
Amazing how hard it is track down guns in history.
That story about his involvement defending the Sherman courthouse against a lynch mob is unreal. He believed in law and due process enough to put himself between a 5,000 strong lynch mob and an admitted rapist.
I haven't found anything that sheds any more light on the guns used in the shootout, but I did come across some rather interesting background information on Hamer's wife Gladys and how they met.
Gladys was the daughter of a very wealthy cattle rancher, Billy Johnson. When only 14, she fell in love with and married 21-year old Ed Sims, the son of another wealthy cattle rancher. This was to lead to a long-running feud between the families that resulted in a number of deaths. The marriage was not a happy one, involved cheating by both of them, and too much drinking by Ed. They were eventually divorced, but not before having two daughters, which led to a custody dispute.
The custody dispute led to enough bad blood between the families that Billy Johnson hired one of Frank Hamer's brothers to be a bodyguard. This, in-turn, led to Frank meeting Gladys when she moved back in with her parents.
The feud went beyond just being ugly when Gladys pulled a gun and shot an unarmed Ed in a public square where they were meeting for a pre-arranged Christmas visit. Ed would have survived except that Glady's older brother Sid ran out of a nearby building with a shotgun and finished Ed off. Gladys and Sid were both indicted for the murder of Ed, and it was while they were awaiting trial that Frank Hamer and Gladys were married.
Shortly after Frank and Gladys were married, both Gladys and Sid were acquitted, and all of the court records from the trial disappeared! You might wonder how they were acquitted in spite of dozens of witnesses to the cold-blooded killing, but it should be remembered that Gladys' and Sid's father was a very wealthy cattle rancher.
It was revenge for all of this that prompted Gee McMeans to try to kill Frank Hamer, resulting in Hamer being shot twice before he killed McMeans.
https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/3098
https://newbooksinpolitics.com/political/the-johnson-sims-feud/
Gladys was the daughter of a very wealthy cattle rancher, Billy Johnson. When only 14, she fell in love with and married 21-year old Ed Sims, the son of another wealthy cattle rancher. This was to lead to a long-running feud between the families that resulted in a number of deaths. The marriage was not a happy one, involved cheating by both of them, and too much drinking by Ed. They were eventually divorced, but not before having two daughters, which led to a custody dispute.
The custody dispute led to enough bad blood between the families that Billy Johnson hired one of Frank Hamer's brothers to be a bodyguard. This, in-turn, led to Frank meeting Gladys when she moved back in with her parents.
The feud went beyond just being ugly when Gladys pulled a gun and shot an unarmed Ed in a public square where they were meeting for a pre-arranged Christmas visit. Ed would have survived except that Glady's older brother Sid ran out of a nearby building with a shotgun and finished Ed off. Gladys and Sid were both indicted for the murder of Ed, and it was while they were awaiting trial that Frank Hamer and Gladys were married.
Shortly after Frank and Gladys were married, both Gladys and Sid were acquitted, and all of the court records from the trial disappeared! You might wonder how they were acquitted in spite of dozens of witnesses to the cold-blooded killing, but it should be remembered that Gladys' and Sid's father was a very wealthy cattle rancher.
It was revenge for all of this that prompted Gee McMeans to try to kill Frank Hamer, resulting in Hamer being shot twice before he killed McMeans.
https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/3098
https://newbooksinpolitics.com/political/the-johnson-sims-feud/
I had forgotten about this movie until this thread popped up. So, with the wife out of town this weekend, I was free to watch pretty much everything she doesn't like.
I fully agree with your point. I really appreciated that in the movie. In fact, they didn't even show Bonnie or Clyde's face until literally the very end (which also worked to give an interesting juxtaposition on their age vs the the two Texas Rangers who hunted them down).
Fordtough25
Grandmaster
Watched this over the weekend, thought it was a solid movie with great actors and story!
indy1919a4
Master
- Jan 7, 2011
- 2,009
- 48
Guess he could not handle a Real BAR.. had to use one of those fancy new Euro Monitor models.... Sheech.... Mr Fancy Pants...
indiucky
Grandmaster
Couple of thoughts:
#1 They played it the way the, y'know, script said to. and
#2 They were going for "too stunned for words".
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