Gun Stores tied to gun Crime

[fst aslp]

Now before I get flamed for this, I am merely posting it because it came up under a search for a local gun shop. I opened it up and found the results interesting. Also, sorry for the repost if necessary. Also, I am not posting to show support of Brady by any means

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/research/AGS-delears.pdf

 

[OneBadV8]

wow, Indiana made the list 13 times

 

[LPMan59]

yeah, the list i saw last year had several popular shops on it. and Don's....big shock there

 

[TopDog]

One of the shops at the top of the list was no surprise. My question if this report is legit why are these places still in business?

 

[renegade]

Don let us down only coming in second. Come on Don we're number one you can do it

 

[target64]

This report, as others is self serving at best. All it is trying to do is paint a picture of colusion between gun stores and criminals.

1)The report does not indicate the manner in which the individual obtained the firearm. Was it by direct purchase, FTF, "STRAW" purchase,theft, etc.

2)Nor did it discuss, if the person was in legal possesion of the firearm at the time of the crime.

3)It does not discuss if the individual in possesion of the firearm was commiting a seconday crime,ie:robbery, murder etc. or if the crime was that of possesion of said firearm by a precluded person (prior act, age, mental capacity)

The above data, is in my opinion worthless at best.

 

[j706]

Self serving at best is a understatement. The real question is what constitutes a "Gun Trace"? Gun traces are ran for things other than crimes. Any shop that has a high volume of sales is going to be on the list. That list means absolutely nothing.

 

[fst aslp]

But what is interesting is that "due to their high volume of sales," they are on the list. I haven't heard much good about Don's, but I haven't ever dealt with them, as their reputation precedes them. If us, as INGO'ers, aren't supporting Dons for what ever reason, who is? Are rules circumvented, potentially putting them higher on the list due to a different caliber of repeat customer?

In school, I was a marketing student, and I can absolutely see where you are coming from as far as not knowing the basis that the list was compiled. However, the question still stands, why aren't other high volume dealers on the list? There are many dealers who have a better reputation around these boards, and are not. Also, are they high volume because in certain circles, they are known to allow unscrupulous sales to happen?

 

[target64]

UHHHHHH,,,,Bradis is on that list, Also Pop's guns is on that listing.....

 

[antsi]

The real question is what constitutes a "Gun Trace"? Gun traces are ran for things other than crimes. Any shop that has a high volume of sales is going to be on the list. That list means absolutely nothing.

Bingo.

Another non-statistic that doesn't mean anything.

If you get pulled over, tell the LEO you have a CCW and they run the serial number on your gun, congratulations, it has now become a "crime gun."

If your gun gets stolen and you report it, congratulations, it's now a "crime gun." If it gets recovered as stolen property, it is a "crime gun."

None of this has anything to do with whether the gun store is following the law or not.

If they're selling guns illegally, the ATF will be all over them. This made-up Brady Buch number has nothing to do with anything, other than a) sales volume of the gun store, b) location of the gun store near a high crime area, c) location of the gun store nearby another jurisdiction with extremely restrictive gun laws.

Notice how they don't specify exactly what constitutes a "crime gun?" Notice how they don't specify what crimes the guns were associated with?

If the gun store is anywhere near Chicago or DC or somewhere like that, where it is a crime simply to own a gun, then there are going to be a lot of "gun crimes" anytime someone gets caught with one. They may have just been speeding or run a red light, LEO finds the gun, and suddenly their gun is "associated with a crime."

 

[fst aslp]

Bingo.

Another non-statistic that doesn't mean anything.

If you get pulled over, tell the LEO you have a CCW and they run the serial number on your gun, congratulations, it has now become a "crime gun."

If your gun gets stolen and you report it, congratulations, it's now a "crime gun." If it gets recovered as stolen property, it is a "crime gun."

None of this has anything to do with whether the gun store is following the law or not.

Actually, I didn't know this. This is quite interesting. I knew that the stolen gun would come up, but not about the CCW. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[pudly]

When they correlate these numbers with total guns sold and number of guns from each shop used for legal self-defense, I'll be impressed. Until then, doesn't mean much.

 

[Roadie]

Can anyone point me to the list of which car dealers sold the most cars used in crimes too please?

 

[indianajoe]

Three statisticians go duck hunting. The first statistician pops out of the blind, fires, and misses 10 feet to the left. The second statistician takes a turn, and misses 10 feet to the right. The third statistician stands up, looks downrange, and proclaims, "I got him!"

 

[j706]

Actually, I didn't know this. This is quite interesting. I knew that the stolen gun would come up, but not about the CCW. Thanks for the heads up.

A gun trace is run through the BATF (Whatever they are called these days). I do not know the criteria to run one. I do know that running a trace often times help us find a owner to a specific firearm. One that sticks out in my mind was a Glock found in a restroom. The Glock had been purchased new and was easy to track.

As for unning a weapon through IDACS/NCIC from a simple traffic stop, I doubt that triggers a gun trace. I believe a gun trace is done by filing out a form and submitting it to BATF.

 

[CarmelHP]

A gun trace is run through the BATF (Whatever they are called these days). I do not know the criteria to run one.

That's the problem, there isn't any. The trace could be run for any reason or no reason. During the early '90's the ATF was fond of running traces on any EBR on a dealer's books in fishing expeditions. ATF can make the trace numbers be whatever they want.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

During the early '90's the ATF was fond of running traces on any EBR on a dealer's books in fishing expeditions.

Yes, Operation Forward Trace. Tracing black, eeevil guns not involved in crime in any way. Finding out who is buying what guns and putting that info in the gun owner's jacket.

You mean high volume dealers often have guns traced back to them that have been involved in crimes? Shocking.

If only there were criminal and administrative penalties for dealers who knowingly sell to prohibited persons.

During the Firearms Law Seminar in Louisville during the 2008 NRA Meeting, both FBI and ATF admitted that there were over 10K firearms that "disappear" (they cannot account for) in the supply chain (maker, wholesaler, dealer) each year. This does not include the number of firearms that are manufactured without ATF approval (homemade guns) or guns smuggled into the country.

If prohibited persons have firearms, perhaps the feds should prosecute them? It's just a crazy whacky idea of mine.

 

[inxs]

Lets see a similar listing for vehicles used in crime, put them both on a map and it'll look fairly similar except for areas that really don't have many gun stores.....

 

[Bigum1969]

If prohibited persons have firearms, perhaps the feds should prosecute them? It's just a crazy whacky idea of mine.

There you go again, Kirk...

 

[ddenny5]

I get the impression that the Brady bunch wants people to believe that these gun shops are selling to criminals. That is what I take from this study. With the exception of Don's Guns I find it hard to believe.