Gun Stores tied to gun Crime

[antsi]

Actually, I didn't know this. This is quite interesting. I knew that the stolen gun would come up, but not about the CCW. Thanks for the heads up.

It would require the officer to run a trace on the gun. I think this would depend on the judgement of the officer in question. Just guessing, but I would guess that if you got pulled over by Boone Co. Sherriff Ken Campbell for a busted tail light and he finds out you have a CCW, he might not run the trace. If you get pulled over in Bloomington or Gary or some such, they might be more likely to run a trace on your gun.

My general point is that having a trace run on your gun's serial number does not reliably indicate that your gun was in any way involved in a violent crime. There are all kinds of non-violent, non-criminal situations where LEO might trace your gun, depending on circumstances.

A gun trace is run through the BATF (Whatever they are called these days). I do not know the criteria to run one.

I don't believe there are any set criteria. It seems to be up to the discretion of the officer.

One scenario you frequently read about on gun boards: Dude is open carrying somewhere, bystander wets pants and calls cops, cops question Dude and run trace on his gun, Dude wasn't breaking any law and is eventually released.

No law was broken, but magically that gun is now a "crime gun."

This makes it easy to see how a gun store near a big city, or nearby to another jurisdiction with a lot of restrictive gun laws and anti-gun attitudes among LEO, could easily have a disproportionate number of traces.

If prohibited persons have firearms, perhaps the feds should prosecute them? It's just a crazy whacky idea of mine.

Bingo. If these dealers were actually breaking the law, they'd have been prosecuted. The BATF is not known for letting these things slide.

What the Bradys are doing is generating a false statistic that casts a negative light on the gun dealer, but in fact does not demonstrate any wrongdoing on the part of the dealer. It's not a statistic, it is a meaningless number they have extracted from their own nether regions.

 

[dross]

Yes, Operation Forward Trace. Tracing black, eeevil guns not involved in crime in any way. Finding out who is buying what guns and putting that info in the gun owner's jacket.

You mean high volume dealers often have guns traced back to them that have been involved in crimes? Shocking.

If only there were criminal and administrative penalties for dealers who knowingly sell to prohibited persons.


If prohibited persons have firearms, perhaps the feds should prosecute them? It's just a crazy whacky idea of mine.

Yeah, I'm sure they often pass up the chance to prosecute. Could it be - oh, I don't know - maybe that the problem lies elsewhere? Could it be that the ATF is ant-gun, and when they can't find actual violations of law that they can prosecute they wage their anti-gun bias in the political arena? I think we know the answer.

“He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.”

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Yeah, I'm sure they often pass up the chance to prosecute

When I was in law enforcement we had to beg the United States Attorney to prosecute felons with guns.

I remember that I was able to convince them (USA, NDInd.) to take exactly one case in the five years I was in LE. The defendant was a convicted child molester with a .32 top break in a bar in Lafayette. He was convicted and received 60 months in the BoP.

I do not know if this has changed recently.

 

[dross]

When I was in law enforcement we had to beg the United States Attorney to prosecute felons with guns.

I remember that I was able to convince them (USA, NDInd.) to take exactly one case in the five years I was in LE. The defendant was a convicted child molester with a .32 top break in a bar in Lafayette. He was convicted and received 60 months in the BoP.

I do not know if this has changed recently.

That's counterintuitive. Why is that, do you think?

 

[pierce195]

I'm sure this is not possible, but I would like to see a list of the gun shops/dealers. That sold firearms that were used to save or protect someones life. It is easy to show the report they want eveyone to see, if they are sure there is no counter on paper to print beside it.

 

[Hoosier8]

One of the shops at the top of the list was no surprise. My question if this report is legit why are these places still in business?

Because they haven't done anything illegal.

 

[j706]

It would require the officer to run a trace on the gun. I think this would depend on the judgement of the officer in question. Just guessing, but I would guess that if you got pulled over by Boone Co. Sherriff Ken Campbell for a busted tail light and he finds out you have a CCW, he might not run the trace. If you get pulled over in Bloomington or Gary or some such, they might be more likely to run a trace on your gun.

My general point is that having a trace run on your gun's serial number does not reliably indicate that your gun was in any way involved in a violent crime. There are all kinds of non-violent, non-criminal situations where LEO might trace your gun, depending on circumstances.



I don't believe there are any set criteria. It seems to be up to the discretion of the officer.

One scenario you frequently read about on gun boards: Dude is open carrying somewhere, bystander wets pants and calls cops, cops question Dude and run trace on his gun, Dude wasn't breaking any law and is eventually released.

No law was broken, but magically that gun is now a "crime gun."

This makes it easy to see how a gun store near a big city, or nearby to another jurisdiction with a lot of restrictive gun laws and anti-gun attitudes among LEO, could easily have a disproportionate number of traces.



Bingo. If these dealers were actually breaking the law, they'd have been prosecuted. The BATF is not known for letting these things slide.

What the Bradys are doing is generating a false statistic that casts a negative light on the gun dealer, but in fact does not demonstrate any wrongdoing on the part of the dealer. It's not a statistic, it is a meaningless number they have extracted from their own nether regions.

I think you are getting things confused. A gun trace and a IDACS/NCIC check for stolen/wants are two entirely different things. A IDACS Check is not a gun trace.

 

[TopDog]

Because they haven't done anything illegal.

That is why I said "if this report is legit"

The preamble from the link says some did commit legal violations. Really? If they committed violations then why no action on the governments part? Sounds to me "if this report is legit" then the ATF has committed some serious violations by not taking any action. So why should we listen to what the ATF has to say in the report?

From the link:
"WHICH GUN DEALERS CONTRIBUTE THE MOST TO THE ILLEGAL MARKET?
The Americans for Gun Safety Foundation issued a report in January 2004 based on the most recent data available from ATF. The report, “Selling Crime” found that gun dealers located in 22 states supplied nearly 15% of guns recovered in crime between 1996 and 2000 and that most of the stores remain open for business, even those that committed repeated legal violations. Each store on the list had at least 200 crime gun traces within
four years."

 

[rimfire_crazed]

That's counterintuitive. Why is that, do you think?

My guess would be the considerable cost in prosecuting individuals when they have much larger fish to fry. I'm not saying its right - but it happens. If a certain USA's office has a huge case that is taking up a huge amount of cash and human resources, sometimes there just isn't enough left to do anything meaningful with.

 

[Ashkelon]

So long as the sale of the gun was legal -- saying the sale is the direct cause of the crime is no different than the sale of a Big Mac being the direct cause of so many people being fat.

Sure, McDonald's can make you fat but people stop at Wendy's White Castle and Taco Bell along the way. Saying that initial sale was the cause of the crime is bogus.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

One of the shops at the top of the list was no surprise. My question if this report is legit why are these places still in business?

I would imagine because the original sale was perfectly legal.

 

[luvall]

Which auto dealerships are most responsible for automobile accidents?

 

[fst aslp]

Which auto dealerships are most responsible for selling to repeat drunk drivers?

another angle. I know car dealers have no responsibility for screen for this. So maybe something would be like insurance companies selling to high risk customers. There are ways to fault anyone for something. Like I said, I just found the report interesting.

 

[Hoosier8]

That is why I said "if this report is legit"

The preamble from the link says some did commit legal violations. Really? If they committed violations then why no action on the governments part? Sounds to me "if this report is legit" then the ATF has committed some serious violations by not taking any action. So why should we listen to what the ATF has to say in the report?

From the link:
"WHICH GUN DEALERS CONTRIBUTE THE MOST TO THE ILLEGAL MARKET?
The Americans for Gun Safety Foundation issued a report in January 2004 based on the most recent data available from ATF. The report, “Selling Crime” found that gun dealers located in 22 states supplied nearly 15% of guns recovered in crime between 1996 and 2000 and that most of the stores remain open for business, even those that committed repeated legal violations. Each store on the list had at least 200 crime gun traces within
four years."

First, one of the violations might be an error on the form, which happens, not necessarily anything illegal. Some stores have been targeted for closure even though they did nothing illegal and the error on the form was used for an excuse. Second, consider the source.