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Happy Juneteenth!

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    KittySlayer

    KittySlayer

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    BE Mike said:
    Let's face it. Most folks don't celebrate most holidays and couldn't care less, unless they get the day off with pay or work the day for extra pay.
    Click to expand...

    Kind of like bereavement leave at most workplaces. A few days of paid time off for immediate family.

    Always get the whiner employee saying, "well she was like a mother to me, I want to attend her funeral."

    What I would like to say is, "if it is that important to you then it is certainly worth using one of your vacation days to attend the funeral."
     
    HoughMade

    HoughMade

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    The upcoming Juneteenth observance seems like as good a time as any...

    BigRed said:
    Again, the war was NOT fought to end slavery. It was fought to stop states from seceeding and to force them into the union.
    Click to expand...
    I agree- not in the beginning....kinda. But slavery was the issue that started the war. The slave owning states only liked their own state's rights and hated it when other states exercised their own rights in a way they didn't like. "State's Rights" as some overarching principal did not start the war...except for that one "right" claimed only by states in the south.

    The south seceded to to preserve slavery, because they wanted slavery in the territories obtained in the Mexican War and even had fantasies of spreading it through conquest in the Carribean and central America. They hated the idea of the citizens of the territories deciding whether they would have slavery. They wanted the right to have slavery guaranteed regardless of what the citizens of those territories and eventual states wanted. There's the love for "state's rights" we've heard so much about. They hated state's rights like states who allowed black people to vote, gave them freedom in their states and allowed their citizens to exercise free speech to speak out about abolition and racial equality. They hated that states exercised their "state's rights" to not return escaped slaves and to allow the underground railroad to operate. They hated the idea that black people would ever be recognized anywhere as the equal of whites and found that to be morally repugnant.

    I get this from the mouths and pens of prominent confederates, particularly their official secession documents, speeches in Congress and in legislatures and the confederate Constitutions and laws. Any writings to the contrary came after the war as a means to desperately try to justify secession by some cause other than slavery. The mythical "Lost Cause". In January 1861, even while expressing the idea that the north had "oppressed" the south, Robert E. Lee expressly rejected the idea that the founders had contemplated or endorsed any right of a state to secede. He knew that winning a war was the only way out. A "revolution" as he called it.

    Oh, and the south waged war first, not only firing on Fort Sumter, but seizing United States facilities all over the south before Lincoln was inaugurated.

    The Union originally fought only to preserve itself. Lincoln was clear in the beginning, and for a long time thereafter, that he wanted the Union preserved regardless of the state of slavery and made such entreaties to the confederacy, but they refused a peaceful unity unless the things noted in the paragraph above were promised. No deal. Eventually, Lincoln got to the point that he was no longer offering peace with the status of slavery returned to that which was pre-war.

    Eventually, 1863 and thereabouts, ending slavery became more and more of a war aim. The 13th Amendment was proposed and eventually passed Congress before the end of the war. Yes, there was not only principal behind it, but both military and diplomatic strategy, but ending slavery had become a war aim and, of course, it did so.

    " Fondly do we hope ~ fervently do we pray ~ that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'"
     
    Last edited:
    Cameramonkey

    Cameramonkey

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    HoughMade said:
    The upcoming Juneteenth observance seems like as good a time as any...


    I agree- not in the beginning....kinda. But slavery was the issue that started the war. The slave owning states only liked their own state's rights and hated it when other states exercised their own rights in a way they didn't like. "State's Rights" as some overarching principal did not start the war...except for that one "right" claimed only by states in the south.

    The south seceded to to preserve slavery, because they wanted slavery in the territories obtained in the Mexican war and even had fantasies of spreading it through conquest in the Carribean and central America. They hated the idea of the citizens of the territories deciding whether they would have slavery. The wanted the right to have slavery guaranteed regardless of what the citizens of those territories and eventual states wanted. There's the respect for "state's rights" we'ver heard so much about. They hated state's rights like states who allowed black people to vote, gave them freedom in their states and allowed their citizens to exercise free speech to speak out about abolition and racial equality. They hated that states exercised their "state's rights" to not return escaped slaves and to allow the underground railroad to operate. They hated the idea that black people would ever be recognized anywhere as the equal of whites and found that to be morally repugnant.

    I get this from the mouths and pens of prominent confederates, particularly their official secession documents, speeches in Congress and in legislatures and the confederate Constitutions and laws. Any writings to the contrary came after the war as a means to desperately try to justify secession by some cause other than slavery. The mythical "Lost Cause". In January 1861, even while expressing the idea that the north has "oppressed" the south, Robert E. Lee expressly rejected the idea that the founders had contemplated or endorsed any right of a state to secede. He knew that winning a war was the only way out. A "revolution" as he called it.

    Oh, and the south waged war first, not only firing on Fort Sumter, but seizing United States facilities all over the south before Lincoln was inaugurated.

    The Union originally fought only to preserve itself. Lincoln was clear in the beginning, and for a long time thereafter, that he wanted the Union preserved regardless of the state of slavery and made such entreaties to the confederacy, but they refused a peaceful unity unless the things noted in the paragraph above were promised. No deal. Eventually, Lincoln got to the point that he was no longer offering peace with the status of slavery returned to that which was pre-war.

    Eventually, 1863 and thereabouts, ending slavery became more and more of a war aim. The 13th Amendment was proposed and eventually passed Congress before the end of the war. Yes, there was not only principal behind it, but both military and diplomatic strategy, but ending slavery had become a war aim and, of course, it did so.

    " Fondly do we hope ~ fervently do we pray ~ that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'"
    Click to expand...
    I read that in my best Shelby Foote voice. LOL
     
    J

    jwamplerusa

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    HoughMade said:
    The upcoming Juneteenth observance seems like as good a time as any...


    I agree- not in the beginning....kinda. But slavery was the issue that started the war. The slave owning states only liked their own state's rights and hated it when other states exercised their own rights in a way they didn't like. "State's Rights" as some overarching principal did not start the war...except for that one "right" claimed only by states in the south.

    The south seceded to to preserve slavery, because they wanted slavery in the territories obtained in the Mexican war and even had fantasies of spreading it through conquest in the Carribean and central America. They hated the idea of the citizens of the territories deciding whether they would have slavery. The wanted the right to have slavery guaranteed regardless of what the citizens of those territories and eventual states wanted. There's the respect for "state's rights" we'ver heard so much about. They hated state's rights like states who allowed black people to vote, gave them freedom in their states and allowed their citizens to exercise free speech to speak out about abolition and racial equality. They hated that states exercised their "state's rights" to not return escaped slaves and to allow the underground railroad to operate. They hated the idea that black people would ever be recognized anywhere as the equal of whites and found that to be morally repugnant.

    I get this from the mouths and pens of prominent confederates, particularly their official secession documents, speeches in Congress and in legislatures and the confederate Constitutions and laws. Any writings to the contrary came after the war as a means to desperately try to justify secession by some cause other than slavery. The mythical "Lost Cause". In January 1861, even while expressing the idea that the north has "oppressed" the south, Robert E. Lee expressly rejected the idea that the founders had contemplated or endorsed any right of a state to secede. He knew that winning a war was the only way out. A "revolution" as he called it.

    Oh, and the south waged war first, not only firing on Fort Sumter, but seizing United States facilities all over the south before Lincoln was inaugurated.

    The Union originally fought only to preserve itself. Lincoln was clear in the beginning, and for a long time thereafter, that he wanted the Union preserved regardless of the state of slavery and made such entreaties to the confederacy, but they refused a peaceful unity unless the things noted in the paragraph above were promised. No deal. Eventually, Lincoln got to the point that he was no longer offering peace with the status of slavery returned to that which was pre-war.

    Eventually, 1863 and thereabouts, ending slavery became more and more of a war aim. The 13th Amendment was proposed and eventually passed Congress before the end of the war. Yes, there was not only principal behind it, but both military and diplomatic strategy, but ending slavery had become a war aim and, of course, it did so.

    " Fondly do we hope ~ fervently do we pray ~ that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'"
    Click to expand...
    We all bleed red...

    Picture taken at the Normandy American Cemetery June 6th, 2023.
    PXL_20230606_085102001.jpg

    That is a lone French reenactor standing at attention in salute facing out to sea at Omaha Beach.

    You can hyphenate all day long, but what we are, are American citizens and we all bleed the same color.

    We've paid for the sin of slavery with a lot of blood. I would prefer to see Juneteenth celebrated around an American flag.
     
    BigRed

    BigRed

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    Mgderf

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    BigRed said:
    www.fox32chicago.com

    Mass shooting at Juneteenth celebration leaves 23 wounded, 1 fatally near Willowbrook

    A man was killed and 22 others were wounded by gunfire at a "peaceful Juneteenth gathering" in Unincorporated Willowbrook overnight, according to the DuPage County Sheriff.
    www.fox32chicago.com www.fox32chicago.com


    One person was killed and 22 more were wounded by gunfire at a "peaceful Juneteenth gathering" in Unincorporated Willowbrook overnight, according to the DuPage County Sheriff.
    Click to expand...
    I would hate to see their definition of a violent gathering.
     
    printcraft

    printcraft

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    Mgderf said:
    I would hate to see their definition of a violent gathering.
    Click to expand...
    "mostly peaceful"... ok "sort of peaceful"... ok "peacefulness sprinkled here and there"... like all of the garbage.

    willowbrook3.jpg
     
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