Haters: Individually Built ARs

[KJQ6945]

This got interesting today........

 

[88E30M50]

Some people buy a roll mark, other people buy a gun. There's room for both in this hobby.

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

This got interesting today........

I know! Come for the haters, EDIT: I fail

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

So, you're gonna carry a Glock now?

He can't carry a glock. Everyone would want to touch it

 

[Hawkeye7br]

I only have a couple AR's, but several custom bolt guns. With the bolt guns, the gunsmith that does the metal work will stamp his name on the barrel, right next to the caliber and neck diameter. That name stamp tells me this guy is proud of his quality, and I have a chance to review references. If I choose to sell, the ad says "...smithed by Dever (or Bond, Apache Machine, or whover)" and then the buyer knows the quality of the gun.


I've had several offers from well intentioned friends that say "hey, I got a lathe, buy a blank and rent a reamer, and I'll chamber it for you...". No thanks.

I admire the guys that put together their own build, but rarely something I want to pay top dollar for.

 

[JollyMon]

My first AR was a factory built... by the time I changed out the parts I wanted to make it more "mine" I spend way more then I originally planned. Thats when I started to assemble "most" of my next ones.... Every rifle costs more then a factory built, but its not worth as much (and I know that going in). I would rather save up for something that I want the first time instead of settling for something. What I assemble is for me and not for anyone else. I enjoy the process, the research, and assembly of each rifle. Could I go into a store a buy a DD, yes, but I dont get the same enjoyment out of it.

But I never even consider pay top dollar for a factory assembled unless its brand new. If you think I am going to pay 700 for your used beat up run of the mill colt 6920, when I could buy a new one for a couple more bills, I rather pay the extra and know the completely history of the rifle instead of the used one.

But I never sell any firearms.... I only buy.

 

[churchmouse]

My first AR was a factory built... by the time I changed out the parts I wanted to make it more "mine" I spend way more then I originally planned. Thats when I started to assemble "most" of my next ones.... Every rifle costs more then a factory built, but its not worth as much (and I know that going in). I would rather save up for something that I want the first time instead of settling for something. What I assemble is for me and not for anyone else. I enjoy the process, the research, and assembly of each rifle. Could I go into a store a buy a DD, yes, but I dont get the same enjoyment out of it.

But I never even consider pay top dollar for a factory assembled unless its brand new. If you think I am going to pay 700 for your used beat up run of the mill colt 6920, when I could buy a new one for a couple more bills, I rather pay the extra and know the completely history of the rifle instead of the used one.

But I never sell any firearms.... I only buy.

Having been involved in many different expensive hobby's I am aware that there is no real money to be made. Used is used. Period. Factory builds are "Used" as soon as you pick them up and walk out the door. Period.
When I build one I am fully aware I will loose out if and when I sell or trade the gun. It is part of the process. Buy parts/build gun/enjoy gun/Friend has to have the gun/make friend a fair deal/sell gun/repeat.

I have done this with Cars/Bikes/Boats/Guns.

 

[The Sandman HD]

A buddy of mine builds AR's himself a lot, every time we take them to the range they perform just as well if not better then stock AR's. Haters will hate.

 

[sig1473]

Anytime I get into a discussion with someone who "builds" their own ARs, I ask them what armorer's wrench they used, how much torque they used on the barrel nut, what kind of grease they used, how much torque did they use on the castle nut, etc. I can always ascertain whether or not they put it together properly within a couple minutes.
ARs are easy to put together until they are not

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

this "assembly" was done by an idiot

PDW Upper #1 build COMPLETE 1/17 - Guns and Ammo, etc. - guns, tasers, even lasers...all self defense weapons discussed here - SMD Forum

 

[KG1]

this "assembly" was done by an idiot

PDW Upper #1 build COMPLETE 1/17 - Guns and Ammo, etc. - guns, tasers, even lasers...all self defense weapons discussed here - SMD Forum

Nice "assembly" I did take note that you properly oriented your barrel nut wrench to your torque wrench to obtain the true torque value.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

 

[BugI02]

Having been involved in many different expensive hobby's I am aware that there is no real money to be made. Used is used. Period. Factory builds are "Used" as soon as you pick them up and walk out the door. Period.
When I build one I am fully aware I will loose out if and when I sell or trade the gun. It is part of the process. Buy parts/build gun/enjoy gun/Friend has to have the gun/make friend a fair deal/sell gun/repeat.

I have done this with Cars/Bikes/Boats/Guns.

Aaaahh but it does allow you the experience of trying many different things while keeping your overall investment in 'stuff' at a manageable level, and has helped hone a remarkable skillset. I think there are several on INGO who have a reputation that would allow them to mark their work if they so desired. Churchmouse, AllenM, The Wizard etc come to mind

 

[BugI02]

"Лучшее - враг хорошего" Better is the enemy of good enough - attributed to Sergei Gorshkov

 

[mammynun]

Short version: Two used guns, same price. AR #1 is a factory built (sorry, I have to pick a name) Olympic/DPMS/(newer)Bushmaster. AR #2 is an average Frankengun; Spikes lower, unknown upper, Rainier/BCM barrel, AIM/PSA/unknown BCG, unknown LPK. I'm buying #2. Actually, I wouldn't be interested in either of the 2 AR's but assuming I had to choose one... If the seller/builder is an unknown, or the factory has a less than sterling reputation, the parts play a BIG role. In this scenario, I can fix stupid.

Long version: A perfectly serviceable AR can be assembled by nearly anyone who has the slightest bit of mechanical inclination, and this can be proven at nearly any range on almost any day. They're everywhere. It's also true that some people manage to screw it up, and you see those AR's at the range as well... usually in the form of canted gas blocks. But I'd wager that most of us have had a new factory firearm that needed immediate "attention" before it was functional, or at least reliable... a Saiga 12 "Vodka Special" is an excellent example of this genre, and it's based on the uber reliable AK pattern. And while Taurus makes some guns that are perfectly reliable for many years, I'm pretty sure I'd take a Frankengun built by some members of INGO over a Taurus AR, all other things being equal.

So, yeah; haters gonna hate. But how much less is an AR with a Noveske barrel worth because the knuckledragger didn't stake the castle nut? For that matter, does staking the castle nut add $50 dollars to the value of a gun? $100? Remember, a hater doesn't know how tight the castle nut was torqued to, only that it's staked... which applies equally to factory builds. Now, if I were to see red loctite oozing out of the barrel nut onto the receiver, that would raise a red flag. But not knowing what a standard USGI barrel nut was torqued to is no big deal; if it's more than hand tight and the gas tube fits, it's within spec. With other barrel nuts, you really should use a torque wrench.

Disclaimer: I am not a factory trained armor, nor have I attended any civilian or military armor schools. That said, the TM and specs for an AR are widely and easily available, and at some point I learned how to reed and rite. I started disassembling everything in the house as soon as I discovered tools, much to the chagrin of my parents. I rebuilt the the top end of my Suzuki TM-75 when I was 12, and a VW Bug engine at 15. Then a Chevy 327 at 17... etc, etc... I gather that this would be unusual these days. So ask yourself, how many people that assemble AR's in a factory have any experience (past employee training)? Do they even shoot, or is their job "just a paycheck."

 

[KG1]

Short version: Two used guns, same price. AR #1 is a factory built (sorry, I have to pick a name) Olympic/DPMS/(newer)Bushmaster. AR #2 is an average Frankengun; Spikes lower, unknown upper, Rainier/BCM barrel, AIM/PSA/unknown BCG, unknown LPK. I'm buying #2. Actually, I wouldn't be interested in either of the 2 AR's but assuming I had to choose one... If the seller/builder is an unknown, or the factory has a less than sterling reputation, the parts play a BIG role. In this scenario, I can fix stupid.

Long version: A perfectly serviceable AR can be assembled by nearly anyone who has the slightest bit of mechanical inclination, and this can be proven at nearly any range on almost any day. They're everywhere. It's also true that some people manage to screw it up, and you see those AR's at the range as well... usually in the form of canted gas blocks. But I'd wager that most of us have had a new factory firearm that needed immediate "attention" before it was functional, or at least reliable... a Saiga 12 "Vodka Special" is an excellent example of this genre, and it's based on the uber reliable AK pattern. And while Taurus makes some guns that are perfectly reliable for many years, I'm pretty sure I'd take a Frankengun built by some members of INGO over a Taurus AR, all other things being equal.

So, yeah; haters gonna hate. But how much less is an AR with a Noveske barrel worth because the knuckledragger didn't stake the castle nut? For that matter, does staking the castle nut add $50 dollars to the value of a gun? $100? Remember, a hater doesn't know how tight the castle nut was torqued to, only that it's staked... which applies equally to factory builds. Now, if I were to see red loctite oozing out of the barrel nut onto the receiver, that would raise a red flag. But not knowing what a standard USGI barrel nut was torqued to is no big deal; if it's more than hand tight and the gas tube fits, it's within spec. With other barrel nuts, you really should use a torque wrench.

Disclaimer: I am not a factory trained armor, nor have I attended any civilian or military armor schools. That said, the TM and specs for an AR are widely and easily available, and at some point I learned how to reed and rite. I started disassembling everything in the house as soon as I discovered tools, much to the chagrin of my parents. I rebuilt the the top end of my Suzuki TM-75 when I was 12, and a VW Bug engine at 15. Then a Chevy 327 at 17... etc, etc... I gather that this would be unusual these days. So ask yourself, how many people that assemble AR's in a factory have any experience (past employee training)? Do they even shoot, or is their job "just a paycheck."

I would agree that someone with a modest interest in assembling an AR is capable of putting together one just as well as factory assembled using the same quality parts. I like to do it because I have control over my own quality.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

Write

 

[mammynun]

Write

Don't forget about reeding; its fun de mental.

 

[maxmayhem]

they do that crap all the time....because they think there is a difference between a $1500 ar and a $550 ar15...there is but not a $1000 difference....its the guys that have only one gun and the guys that dont really shoot...i have seen the $1500 fail and a $450 palmetto just run and run and run and run with no cleaning....i have all spikes rifles at least until the canoe accident and its a good blend of quality and value...that being said...i could not tell a difference between a sig, an armalite, a palmetto, a spikes, a smith and wesson, or a bushmaster (which a douce at the lgs called a trashmaster)..i just like the logos on the spikes and they have the cool factor for me......they are full of crap and believe (without testing) the crap they read on here....if you dont believe that there is crap on here...post something....you will get five wrong answers and two right one...one dude suggesting that im limp wristing...one dude saying paragraphs....one dude that says to polish it...there is so much junk information but you just have to try the stuff for yourself to get the truth...i have owned and built many ar15s....there are some definite quality difference but things you wont even care about until you 20,000 rounds....why buy a 3000 ar 15? its crazy...the heart and soul of an ar is the bcg, barrel, and a drop in trigger(one of the best enhancements to accuracy and enjoyment of the rifle)....i can replace the barrel 4 times and get the best bcg and still be ahead with a home built ar15 and still be under 3000.....i would rather have five of the 600 ar 15s than one $3000 ar 15....

 

[churchmouse]

they do that crap all the time....because they think there is a difference between a $1500 ar and a $550 ar15...there is but not a $1000 difference....its the guys that have only one gun and the guys that dont really shoot...i have seen the $1500 fail and a $450 palmetto just run and run and run and run with no cleaning....i have all spikes rifles at least until the canoe accident and its a good blend of quality and value...that being said...i could not tell a difference between a sig, an armalite, a palmetto, a spikes, a smith and wesson, or a bushmaster (which a douce at the lgs called a trashmaster)..i just like the logos on the spikes and they have the cool factor for me......they are full of crap and believe (without testing) the crap they read on here....if you dont believe that there is crap on here...post something....you will get five wrong answers and two right one...one dude suggesting that im limp wristing...one dude that says to polish it...there is so much junk information but you just have to try the stuff for yourself to get the truth...i have owned and built many ar15s....there are some definite quality difference but things you wont even care about until you 20,000 rounds....why buy a 3000 ar 15? its crazy...the heart and soul of an ar is the bcg, barrel, and a drop in trigger(one of the best enhancements to accuracy and enjoyment of the rifle)....i can replace the barrel 4 times and get the best bcg and still be ahead with a home built ar15 and still be under 3000.....i would rather have five of the 600 ar 15s than one $3000 ar 15....

Paragraph's man......Paragraph's..............