HB1231 passes in house- (Centerfire rifles for deer hunting)

[oldpink]

I was talking about the 5 rounds (cartridges) that are allowed to be used, 243, 30-30, 308, 30-06 and 300.

Oops!
Got it.

 

[M4Madness]

They definitely chose 5 cartridges and did not intend for more than that to be legal. Their premise is that they still want to limit power and exclude the really potent stuff. They certainly never thought about the wording of the bill allowing a .50 BMG necked down to .300. They just picked 5 popular deer hunting cartridges and ran with them.

 

[openwell]

They definitely chose 5 cartridges and did not intend for more than that to be legal. Their premise is that they still want to limit power and exclude the really potent stuff. They certainly never thought about the wording of the bill allowing a .50 BMG necked down to .300. They just picked 5 popular deer hunting cartridges and ran with them.

Yes, they have .243 for kids, Jrs & wifes; 30-30 for the western movie buffs, and some hunters in the know; 30-06 & .308 for Dad, farm hands and guys that don't mind the heavy recoil because the're shootin fur; and the .300 for bean field hunters that like to really reach out and "tag" a buck, maybe a doe. Almost forgot, the 10mm Ted Nugent followers using their Glock 20(I fit in this group) .It will be great fun for all. Since it's a five year test I don't expect them to add or change things because they need consistent "data" for their report back to the Gov. & lawyers at end of five years. BTW I never thought I would see this day. I have seen the slow motion of allowing handguns back in about 1986. Then the painful adoption of the cross-bow, with it's late season, doe only, etc. non-sense. This one really came out of the clear "blue" but I'm glad it's an election year, and five years from now Pence will be out of office even if he's re-elected. good hunting and don't forget to practice a lot. Hoosier economy can use the boost in sales of the related goodies we'll need.

 

[Hookeye]

Yes, they have .243 for kids, Jrs & wifes; 30-30 for the western movie buffs, and some hunters in the know; 30-06 & .308 for Dad, farm hands and guys that don't mind the heavy recoil because the're shootin fur; and the .300 for bean field hunters that like to really reach out and "tag" a buck, maybe a doe. Almost forgot, the 10mm Ted Nugent followers using their Glock 20(I fit in this group) .It will be great fun for all. Since it's a five year test I don't expect them to add or change things because they need consistent "data" for their report back to the Gov. & lawyers at end of five years. BTW I never thought I would see this day. I have seen the slow motion of allowing handguns back in about 1986. Then the painful adoption of the cross-bow, with it's late season, doe only, etc. non-sense. This one really came out of the clear "blue" but I'm glad it's an election year, and five years from now Pence will be out of office even if he's re-elected. good hunting and don't forget to practice a lot. Hoosier economy can use the boost in sales of the related goodies we'll need.

Boost in sales?
I thought all the poor folks in this forsaken state had to rely on HP rifle hand-me downs.............have been sitting back unable to pursue Bambi because they couldn't use gramp's old deer slayer.

.308/.30-06 heavy recoil..................must be the arthritic and or aged who choose those chamberings.......

Really now. My hunting bud had a 760 and declared it only tolerable. I got one and found it to be no big deal. Heck, get a 742 or 7400 and it's even less. Nobody said you gotta play Updtate New Yorker Nimrod and shoot 180's and 200's.
BTW 180's in a 760 aint bad. All these super smart riflemen in waiting, had plenty of time to get their rigs sized/modified...........it's not like rifle hunting here just now was discussed/happened

Sure the old 700 BDLs came with buttplates.............but most of the stuff now has a pad. newer pads even more soft. Should be able to run 130's or 150's no prob. Can download or buy reduced recoil factory fodder if they've watched too much of The View or Ellen lately.

Maybe this giant boost to the economy will be gunsmiths fitting new elastomer pads to old hand me down rifles?

The gun sales.............not much IMHO. See more silliness when Clinton wins.
New .30-06 bolt gun traded in on another AR?

Who knows, who cares? Doubt out of staters are gonna flock here now to pop deer.

But then there is that pizza and cake deal that Tully skewered Pence on.............. billions lost due to RFRA and half that back on out of state deer licenses? I'm not believing either LOL

On a coolish side note..........somebody here gonna slam a buck with an old H&K sporter?
That'd be a neat pic.

 

[Hookeye]

10mm auto might be fun in handgun.
I woudn't run a Glock though just because Ted Nugent runs one.
Not a fan.
Longslide 1911 would be my choice.

 

[openwell]

Out-of-State Hunters will Flock to Indiana and our economy will really get a boost. Travel, hotels, meals, licenses, nick nacks, and even Rifles and plus of course; ammo.
Just a quick note: Illinois & Ohio & lower Michigan do not have rifle deer seasons. Iowa does not have rifle season either. Ky has rifle hunting as does Missouri & AK & TN.
We just created a multi-million dollar tourist center. Plus, it will bring hunters like me, that have been traveling to WV and Montana to hunt each year to stay home and spend some money locally. Deer license that I have declined to spend because I was limited to short range guns & I love to travel and camp. BTW there are tons of the most popular Rem. 700 30-06 with plastic & steel but plates that will have you re-think your comment about the 21 ft. pounds of recoil generated. Yes, semi-autos dampen it some. But I have a Win. model 100, semi-auto in .308 Win. with a recoil pad that kicks like a mule. So enjoy and practice with new or old equipment so we can be ready.

 

[CLR]

Wow. Just ordered a 300BLK upper when I heard the news. I hope restrictions aren't placed to only allow WSM or the like.

 

[openwell]

Wow. Just ordered a 300BLK upper when I heard the news. I hope restrictions aren't placed to only allow WSM or the like.

You are probably good to go this Fall. But, since you need to hunt on private lands and conservative farmers might not be familiar with ARs you might want to smooth talk them and explain how it works and the such. Plus when DNR collects data on deer harvests you may have a few extra boxes to fill-in to explain the .300 cartridge specifications, LOL. good hunting

 

[Willie]

Legislature will have to "Clean Up" the language of the law concerning specific cartridges. The DNR is a law enforcement branch and can't change the law. I am assuming that the House will do so. But if the Legislature does not do anything, the CO's can't change the language. to mean only 300win mag. Only a Court can interpret the meaning of a law. DRR has no right to re-wright even a mistake in language of a law.

.243 can mean; 243wssm or .243win, 30-06 can mean: 30-06springfield or 30-06JDJ or 30-06Ackley Improved, 30-30 can mean: 30-30win 30-30Ackley Improved and 308 can mean: 308win 308 Marlin Express 308 Norma Mag. .300 can mea:; 300savage 300H&H 300Weatherby 300WSM 300REM Ultra Mag.

The whole bill is a big mess! I don't understand why limit to just 5 rounds or as it has been said before is this just a way to include all rounds with the root of the name in the first digits of the cartridge name? to slip in a few extra rounds? Seems more plausible in some ways. But even if the hunting guide says 300win mag, the law does not, and the letter of the law is the law of the land not the hunting guide.

I am having a heated disagreement with a poster on my site who thinks that the DNR can do anything that they want. I am also in contact with the DNR who says to me that IF the legislature doesn't "clarify" the law at the "technical change day" that the DNR is bound by what is in the law now. So any .300 is legal, as well as a multitude of other cartridges... and maybe that is what the legislature really wanted? Who knows... Anytime the legislature gets involved in game management it gets screwed up..


.

 

[Hookeye]

Quit looking a gift horse in the mouth.
If they don't do a tech review you got more than 5 to pick from.
Mistake or a slick attempt at helping..........whatever it is, lighten up Francis.

 

[Hookeye]

There are various .300's and .308's (and a few .243's).....
Eh, the AI stuff isn't worth mentioning IMHO.


.308 Lazzeroni Warbird

150 gr still doing 2700 FPS at 500 yards.






Too much $ and roar for me proly.
One of these days I'd still like a 257 Weatherby Mag, just for yotes

 

[Hookeye]

Yeah, 20+ yrs ago a farmer had a chuck by his barn. No guns his wife said, so I snuck back and zipped it with a Blackwidow recurve.
Stopped by later in the week (was hunting down the road) and he was home. Chatting, a chuck came out in other field, he asked if I brought a rifle.
Sure did...........FNC para. Not a gun guy at all he was.

He said "shoot it with that!"

So I did.

He was all smiles.

Wouldn't worry too much about farmers having issues with MSRs. If they are that fickle they proly wouldn't let you hunt their ground anyway (or will use any excuse to rescind permission and give to somebody else- proly somebody paying more).

As long as you don't run all 10 rounds fast this fall, I bet 99% will be cool with it. Even if you did burn all 10 fast.........if you had several deer down they might be downright happy.

 

[M4Madness]

Illinois & Ohio & lower Michigan do not have rifle deer seasons.

Lower Michigan and Ohio both now allow sraight-walled rifles, and Illinois currently has some sort of deer rifle bill weaving its way through their legislature.

 

[cedarthicket]

Lower Michigan and Ohio both now allow sraight-walled rifles, and Illinois currently has some sort of deer rifle bill weaving its way through their legislature.

Yup, lower Michigan and Ohio "learned" from Indiana that they can safely use rifles during firearms seasons. Indiana's history is a series of several "steps" to where we are now. Lower Michigan and Ohio have recently taken at least the first step.

 

[Lambo]

I was looking thru one of my reloading manuals (the Sierra fifth edition) primarily to look at the difference between the 300 win mag and .308 win and noticed everything between a 30 M1 carbine and 30-378 Weatherby mag all use the same .308 bullet. that would be pages 492-627 my question is would all these be legal to hunt with if they shoot the same 308 regardless of their given name? Seems odd that the .308 that was called out and the 300 and the 30 06 can all be reloaded with the same bullet. A buddy was asking my opinion on what to buy so I was researching the options and had never looked all thru the various options. I reload and have a 308 bought for long range shooting, 243 for varmints, 1962 Marlin 336 35 Remington was my recent choice trimmed for deer and I was very pleased with it last year as I was able to drop an 11 pointer and a doe in their tracks at 100+ yards.

 

[openwell]

Did some research and here it is as of the year 1997, which is 19 years ago, but we got to start somewhere:
Cartridges Of The World, 8th Edition, Revised And Expanded, 1997
by Frank C. Barnes
(page references listed after each cartridge below)


HR 1231 ....Sec. 8. (b)(3) The rifle must be chambered for ..cartridges:

(A) .243
1- .243 Winchester p.29

(B) .30-30
1- 30-30 Ackley Improved p.179
2- 30-30 WCF p.52
3- 30-30 Wesson p.106
4- 30-30 Winchester p.52

(C) .300
1- 300 (295) Rook p320
2- 300 Belted Rimless Magnum (H&H) p.320
3- 300 Canadian Magnum p.212
4- 300 Dakota p.212
5- 300 H&H Super p.58
6- 300 Holland & Holland Magnum p.58
7- 300 Pegasus p.213
8- 300 Phoenix p.211
9- 300 Savage p.53
10- 300 Sherwood p.320
11- 300 Weatherby Magnum p.60
12- 300 Wisper p210
13- 300 Winchester Magnum p.59

(D) .30-06
1- 30-06 Ackley Improved p.180
2- 30-06 Government p289
3- 30-06 Springfield 57 p.289
4- 30-06 U.S. p.289

(E) .308
1- 308 Norma Magnum p.108
2- 308 Winchester p.56
3- 308X1.5“ Barnes p.178

 

[M4Madness]

I was looking thru one of my reloading manuals (the Sierra fifth edition) primarily to look at the difference between the 300 win mag and .308 win and noticed everything between a 30 M1 carbine and 30-378 Weatherby mag all use the same .308 bullet. that would be pages 492-627 my question is would all these be legal to hunt with if they shoot the same 308 regardless of their given name? Seems odd that the .308 that was called out and the 300 and the 30 06 can all be reloaded with the same bullet.

It's not odd when you realize that the Legislature's intention was to legalize five cartridges, not five calibers. Four share the same .308" bullet diameter.

.243 Winchester
.30-30 Winchester
.308 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
.300 Winchester Magnum

It is only by a fluke that the bill reads like calibers.

 

[Lambo]

Ok I see now I didn't zero in on the word cartridge so that would limit us to anything within the family of cartridges rather than the previous proposal that called out bullet diameters .243 and up. So as long as we are bound to a "factory brass chambered?" still a little ambiguous but I am sure they will clear that up. I suppose they could exclude magnums if they wanted so I will have to suggest patience to my friend on making any purchases of compliant firearms until the regulations come out unless he just goes with a given .243/.308 cant go wrong there. As I said I will stick with the .35 I hunt a field next to my house along a creek and have opportunities much further than I care to shoot. The buck I harvested last year was chasing does with 3 other bucks all day at 200 yds. and I choose not to take the shot until later that afternoon she lead him to me. The 308 or 243 would have been a much better choice at 200+ but that wasn't an option last year. I may not have to worry about the bucks if I stay with it has to be bigger than my biggest plan. I may be just taking does and that can be done preferably after the temps cool down enough to let them hang a week or so. I have been blessed over the years of my hunting and been able to take several with a bow and muzzle loader this should be good for the youngsters coming up they should be able to make better shots if they are disciplined and take the time to practice. I will look forward to my grand daughter someday using the 243, I will have to build a nice tree house for her to play in until it becomes a tree stand. Thanks for helping clear this up as much as we can for now.

 

[Willie]

List of rifle cartridges..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges#.30_caliber_.E2.80.93_.39_caliber

 

[openwell]

It's not odd when you realize that the Legislature's intention was to legalize five cartridges, not five calibers. Four share the same .308" bullet diameter.

.243 Winchester
.30-30 Winchester
.308 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
.300 Winchester Magnum

It is only by a fluke that the bill reads like calibers.

Nice thing is that laws have language that is very easy to misunderstand. It does not state the following "five" cartridges! at all. It states: The rifle must be chambered for one (1) of the following cartridges: (A) through (E), That is indeed a list of five rifle chamber sizes, without any specific cartridge names. Winchester happens to be the only chamber for only one: (A) .243. (B) through (E) have many cartridge names that go with those chamber sizes. The list from 1997, Cartridges of the World list one of my favorite ones, the .300 Weatherby Magnum and I think the law makers got it right. This five year test will have us limited to a reasonable number of cartridges with the "chamber sizes" they listed.