Help me diagnose my goofy AR issue

[MohawkSlim]

The bolt would move into the carrier with some resistance. It would pass the "stand it on end and the bolt shouldn't move into the carrier". However we didn't take the bolt apart and inspect the rings. Interesting idea.

I've seen two ARs in the past two weeks with out of spec rings. One had a single ring that was bent upwards at the tip. The other was obviously too large and scraped the carrier each time it moved.

If you've changed your BCG and it starts running fine... you've narrowed down your problem. It's in that old BCG somewhere. The new one worked fine with the "bad" charging handle, right? It's not that then. I'd put my money on out of spec gas rings in the "bad" BCG.

And spending money doesn't necessarily mean you won't have issues. ARs are finicky. Spending extra money might not mean you're going to get one that works for you. I bought a really nice Colt Match Target Rifle and it had issue after issue. I swapped the bolt with a standard GI bolt from the armory, and it ran just fine. These cheap "entry level" ARs are more than adequate. You may have to piece them together till you find what yours likes, but who cares what the roll mark says as long as it works.

 

[Trigger Time]

I've seen two ARs in the past two weeks with out of spec rings. One had a single ring that was bent upwards at the tip. The other was obviously too large and scraped the carrier each time it moved.

If you've changed your BCG and it starts running fine... you've narrowed down your problem. It's in that old BCG somewhere. The new one worked fine with the "bad" charging handle, right? It's not that then. I'd put my money on out of spec gas rings in the "bad" BCG.

And spending money doesn't necessarily mean you won't have issues. ARs are finicky. Spending extra money might not mean you're going to get one that works for you. I bought a really nice Colt Match Target Rifle and it had issue after issue. I swapped the bolt with a standard GI bolt from the armory, and it ran just fine. These cheap "entry level" ARs are more than adequate. You may have to piece them together till you find what yours likes, but who cares what the roll mark says as long as it works.

you could be right. I reread his post and since he swapped the full bcg it seems unlikely a charging handle issue. I still wouldn't rule out the cam pin. But rings may be it. Although love my woods described some resistance and that's not abnormal. The internet is a hard place to diagnose issues. I imagine that's why doctors make you come in to see them too.
some of you guys though need to learn what part is the carrier and what part is the bolt. You're driving me nuts lol

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Have you ever taken the bolt apart? (not removed it from the carrier, but removed the extractor, etc).

When it malfunctions, is the bolt still engaged with the case or has it popped loose? I am guessing it is still engaged by what you described, but I am confirming to eliminate an obvious extractor issue.

 

[bwframe]

Sounds like a backup BCG would be handy to have around?

 

[Tactically Fat]

Update: I have no update. I'm a dad to two awesome little kids and husband to one awesome wife - and that keeps me busy most evenings. Last night was no exception. I intended to check live-round extraction this morning but I remembered I was going to do that as I was on the Interstate headed to work.

Sounds like a backup BCG would be handy to have around?

I am SLOWLY amassing spare parts, man! I DO have a spare bolt at home. I do NOT yet have a spare BC.

In my "almost wholly ignorant of ARs and their innards' functioning" state of mind - I think it may have to do with how the bolt unlocks/rotates as it comes out of battery upon firing. What would cause that? No idea. Again - I just gotta find the time to camp out in the "shop" (hah!) and get it done.

 

[rvb]

You didn't mention it not cycling by hand without ammo present. If it cycles ok empty, I wouldn't suspect rings or cam pin or CH. Rings are an easy thing to look at though. Still curious to hear about whether you can cycle ammo through it...
Suspecting headspace issue. maybe someone near you has a set of gauges...

Do you still have your fired brass that got stuck?

-rvb

 

[Tactically Fat]

I THINK I have some of the fired brass. There were noticeable "drag marks" all the way around the back half of the brass. Hard to explain it. I do have some brass loose in my range bag that I THINK is from my rifle. If I don't have it, then LMW has it in the bag of brass we left behind for him as a small donation to his reloading cache. I will say that, other than those marks, there wasn't anything else remarkable about the brass. Didn't look swelled, wasn't split, primers looked ok, etc. They weren't checked with any kind of go/no go gauge or reloading die or anything, however.

Another note: I didn't think it pertinent because of the rifle working just fine with the other BCG: The rifle in question here is a .223 Wylde barrel

 

[rvb]

There were noticeable "drag marks" all the way around the back half of the brass.

That could be a clue for a poorly cut chamber, which could keep the fired brass from extracting easily. Note that brass will get scrapes from other sources and be perfectly fine (eg magazine feed lips, feeding over the barrel extension lugs, etc). So it's hard to say w/o seeing it.

They weren't checked with any kind of go/no go gauge or reloading die or anything, however.

this was factory ammo, right? decent stuff? brass or steel? IF it was bargain bin no brand name or especially if steel cased, get some decent stuff. doesn't have to be match grade or anything...

-rvb

 

[halfmileharry]

That could be a clue for a poorly cut chamber, which could keep the fired brass from extracting easily. Note that brass will get scrapes from other sources and be perfectly fine (eg magazine feed lips, feeding over the barrel extension lugs, etc). So it's hard to say w/o seeing it.



this was factory ammo, right? decent stuff? brass or steel? IF it was bargain bin no brand name or especially if steel cased, get some decent stuff. doesn't have to be match grade or anything...

-rvb

This is some great advice. Many times the "bargain" stuff will work fine. Lots of times the junk ammo like this causes problems people try to associate to firearms issues.
You can buy the best ammo available and still get an occasional problem. The cheap stuff seems to have a LOT of problems.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Ammo used was ZQI Brass XM855, Prvi Partizan brass 55gr, and some of LMW's brass-cased reloads.

Everything fed, fired, extracted, and ejected just fine with the "other" BCG installed in the rifle. Everything had the same issues with the "bad" BCG.


To all: Thank you all for the tips, hints, and suggestions on what to check. I HOPE to get some eyeballs on this stuff this evening!!

 

[halfmileharry]

You've narrowed it down.

 

[rvb]

Ammo used was ZQI Brass XM855, Prvi Partizan brass 55gr, and some of LMW's brass-cased reloads.

Everything fed, fired, extracted, and ejected just fine with the "other" BCG installed in the rifle. Everything had the same issues with the "bad" BCG.

ok, good, that rules out bad ammo, and probably the poorly cut chamber. You could narrow down further by just swapping bolts, not the carrier....

Suspect if you chamber rounds and try to manually extract (w/o firing), you'll find them to be jammed in there....

-rvb

 

[Trigger Time]

I THINK I have some of the fired brass. There were noticeable "drag marks" all the way around the back half of the brass. Hard to explain it. I do have some brass loose in my range bag that I THINK is from my rifle. If I don't have it, then LMW has it in the bag of brass we left behind for him as a small donation to his reloading cache. I will say that, other than those marks, there wasn't anything else remarkable about the brass. Didn't look swelled, wasn't split, primers looked ok, etc. They weren't checked with any kind of go/no go gauge or reloading die or anything, however.

Another note: I didn't think it pertinent because of the rifle working just fine with the other BCG: The rifle in question here is a .223 Wylde barrel

the feedramps could also be improperly cut or not alligned. I have found the same issue actually with another ingo members AR. It was an Adams arms barrel and the cuts were not right. He got it replaced by them and no more issues. Just one more thing to look at.

 

[Tactically Fat]

the feedramps could also be improperly cut or not alligned. I have found the same issue actually with another ingo members AR. It was an Adams arms barrel and the cuts were not right. He got it replaced by them and no more issues. Just one more thing to look at.

Visually - it all jives with a ton of pictures I Googled when researching barrels and what type of barrel extension to get. Like I've said - everything with the gun was kosher with that other BCG in it.

 

[Trigger Time]

Visually - it all jives with a ton of pictures I Googled when researching barrels and what type of barrel extension to get. Like I've said - everything with the gun was kosher with that other BCG in it.

ok good. Just brainstorming. I can't remember everything I read lol. I'm much better in person because I have my own checklist I go through.

 

[HoughMade]

I don't know what the problem is....but I know the solution.

 

[Trigger Time]

I don't know what the problem is....but I know the solution.

LOL this is funny because i know you're joking but some people do it and I've seen the results and had to fix them

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Sounds like a similar issue I'm having with my sbr. Upgraded the extractor spring to a bcm only to have ii break (spring).
So bought a middle of the road bolt off midway. When function testing, (after dry firing) the bolt locks into the lugs, and I have to 'pry' the bolt back as the charging handle won't pull it back. (pry is gentle, just enough to nudge it and it frees up).
Bolt did the same when installed in my age old field ar when I swapped BCG's. 'Old field rifle' BCG worked fine in sbr (as did the previous bolt).
Swapped bolts in carriers, and now both bcgs work fine in both rifles. weird. still trying to sort it out so I know what was going on though.

Anyways, short story long, as others have mentioned, try swapping bolts with carriers

 

[halfmileharry]

LOL this is funny because i know you're joking but some people do it and I've seen the results and had to fix them

And I fully expected to see a PSA Dremel knock off in the pics.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Small update:

loaded cartridges feed and extract without issues.

I removed the BCG and broke down the bolt last night. To my untrained eye - nothing looked out of sorts. Both the extractor spring and ejector plunger were still pretty "stout".

It'll need a more trained eye than mine, me thinks.

I sent a PM to T.T. to see if I can swing by this PM after work - as his house is on the way home from mine.