Help me with determining reasonable accuracy expectations.

[mcapo]

Why not get a couple CZs from the CZ custom shop?

Though I fear the wrath of the CZholics around here - I only have one CZ (75 SP-01) in a stock configuration and while I can't say its my favorite - it has remarkable accuracy "out of the box" and shots incredibly easy. Under three inches at 25 yards is very realistic given quality ammo. A little Cajun work and I am sure it would group even tighter. All Hail CZ.....

The other challenge the OP will run into is that accuracy will vary within a maker/model and individual firearms react to different ammo in different ways.

My suggestion - not that you asked - would be find the gun you like the feel of and shoot well (maybe through rentals) and then research its accuracy potential before deciding to purchase. Then buy another. then another. and another...

 

[sheepdog697]

I would think that ammo would be a factor, but what you are expecting should be reasonable.

 

[hpclayto]

It's a handgun. It's only for fighting to your rifle

 

[natdscott]

Ah yes.

Here we are...

-Nate

 

[ART338WM]

To answer a few questions, Im going with polymer guns for #1-cost savings and #2-weight savings. I have two sons who also love to shoot firearms and want their own HG's and unfortunately cost is a major factor for my choice in firearm selection. I am looking for a HG that if I do my part with good reloads and factory ammo will consistently give me 4" or smaller 25 yard groups. I can do 4"and often better groups with my revolvers. Im choosing pistols over revolvers for cost, capacity, and weight.


Right now I am down to one of the three fallowing striker fired polymer pistols. HK VP9, PPQ M2, or S&W M&P M2. I was seriously considering a CZ P10 but I am tired of being unable to find one just to examine let alone buy. I am not considering Glocks as I simply don't like the grip angle at all or how they feel over all in my hands. I don't like firearms that transition from DA to SA. I also have no interest in spending $$$ on any type of upgrades for better barrels, triggers or gunsmith tune jobs.

As I said these HG's will be for fun at the range, casual IDPA, home and personal defense.

 

[VERT]

VP9, PPQ and M&P2 is a good list.

 

[throttletony]

VP9, PPQ and M&P2 is a good list.

Agreed.
With that list, i would choose the PPQ for pure shooting pleasure, or the m&p if i needed to buy a dozen mags to go with it (theyre available and cheap)
VP9 doesn't shoot quite as well as the PPQ in MY HANDS, but if it does for you, then go for it.

 

[mcapo]

Steal of Deal on the M&P 2.0...plus 2 mags, 2 boxes and a loader as a rebate...but I am biased.

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/188829

Also; thought of this thread when I read this last night. https://gundigest.com/handguns/define-handgun-accuracy

 

[Hohn]

VP9, PPQ and M&P2 is a good list.

Not a bad list, but I'd put an asterisk on the PPQ. I don't know why it is, but the PPQ is the snappiest, harshest recoil I've ever felt in 9mm. It slows me down. For slow fire, that great trigger lets you shoot it accurately, but try and speed things up a bit and the groups open faster than other striker guns because of that recoil. At least for me. I'm not a stud shooter so, the recoil difference is likely moot for a typical INGOer who shoots 10,000 rounds for every word typed here and has perfect recoil management.

M&P 2.0 I've not fired yet, but my experience with a Pro CORE was underwhelming for the price of the gun. Maybe the 2.0 has a far superior trigger (without such ridiculous CZ-like curve) and is more accurate.

Drop issues and all, IMHO P320 is still tops overall in striker gun land. It's ergonomic, fast, smooth, reliable, and accurate. Just don't drop it upside down.

And now with all the P320 soap opera, you can buy them very cheap. New guns all over for $500ish or less. Buy used and get a GREAT deal. I've seen them go used for the price of a caliber x-change kit.


If you act now, you can get still get 320s that aren't 'fixed' and might have a decent trigger. I have a flat Grey Guns unit in mine and it's awesome, but the oem trigger on most samples is very good, if perhaps a bit heavy on some guns. (They vary a bit from the factory across a 1-1.5 lb range. After a thousand rounds, they tend to stabilize around 6#).

 

[VERT]

Not a bad list, but I'd put an asterisk on the PPQ. I don't know why it is, but the PPQ is the snappiest, harshest recoil I've ever felt in 9mm. It slows me down. For slow fire, that great trigger lets you shoot it accurately, but try and speed things up a bit and the groups open faster than other striker guns because of that recoil. At least for me. I'm not a stud shooter so, the recoil difference is likely moot for a typical INGOer who shoots 10,000 rounds for every word typed here and has perfect recoil management.

M&P 2.0 I've not fired yet, but my experience with a Pro CORE was underwhelming for the price of the gun. Maybe the 2.0 has a far superior trigger (without such ridiculous CZ-like curve) and is more accurate.

Drop issues and all, IMHO P320 is still tops overall in striker gun land. It's ergonomic, fast, smooth, reliable, and accurate. Just don't drop it upside down.

And now with all the P320 soap opera, you can buy them very cheap. New guns all over for $500ish or less. Buy used and get a GREAT deal. I've seen them go used for the price of a caliber x-change kit.


If you act now, you can get still get 320s that aren't 'fixed' and might have a decent trigger. I have a flat Grey Guns unit in mine and it's awesome, but the oem trigger on most samples is very good, if perhaps a bit heavy on some guns. (They vary a bit from the factory across a 1-1.5 lb range. After a thousand rounds, they tend to stabilize around 6#).

P320 is a solid gun and readily available. They shoot well.

I have have not tried the M&P 2.0 yet. But I do have an updated factory rebarrel for an M&P Pro that shoots acceptable.

Both the PPQ and VP9 have a very high bore axis. That is the gun sits high in the hand. The 4" guns want to jump/track up compared to a Glock or M&P. This is especially noticeable in the .40S&W versions where the gun almost feels likes it torques up an left for a right handed shooter.

The typical INGOer will not fire 10,000 rounds combined in a lifetime.

 

[cedartop]

P320 is a solid gun and readily available. They shoot well.

I have have not tried the M&P 2.0 yet. But I do have an updated factory rebarrel for an M&P Pro that shoots acceptable.

Both the PPQ and VP9 have a very high bore axis. That is the gun sits high in the hand. The 4" guns want to jump/track up compared to a Glock or M&P. This is especially noticeable in the .40S&W versions where the gun almost feels likes it torques up an left for a right handed shooter.

The typical INGOer will not fire 10,000 rounds combined in a lifetime.

Only because we are so naturally awesome that amount of practice isn't required.

 

[VERT]

Only because we are so naturally awesome that amount of practice isn't required.

I won't cast stones from my glass house. My guess is I regularly only fire about 5000 handgun rounds per year myself. I bet I don't average 200-300 out of my carbine. This year the shotgun will get a bit more of a workout.

 

[cedartop]

I won't cast stones from my glass house. My guess is I regularly only fire about 5000 handgun rounds per year myself. I bet I don't average 200-300 out of my carbine. This year the shotgun will get a bit more of a workout.

Oh, I shoot a ton, just not a lot to show for it.

 

[sht4brnz]

Shot a brand new 2.0 my buddy had just bought.
We were shooting bulk (junk) ammo breaking in the pistol.
6" group from a full mag was about average.
This could certainly be improved with more cycles, better ammo, and taking five shot groups.
The trigger is 1000% better than the first m&p I shot. I felt it was good enough that I wouldn't be searching for an immediate replacement. The old m&p wouldn't have left the store without a replacement trigger.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I won't cast stones from my glass house. My guess is I regularly only fire about 5000 handgun rounds per year myself.

Combined with a basic dry fire routine, that's still plenty enough to develop and maintain a solid level of proficiency. Particularly once you've got a solid understanding of the fundamentals and their application, which I'm sure you do. That's really the issue with the "good enough" crowd. If you can't maintain a decent group at 10y, it's because you aren't executing the fundamentals properly. If you don't have the fundamentals on board your going to get way more out of it under stress than someone with the same level of experience but a proper grasp of the fundamentals. People with good ingrained habits can find and use their sights, for example, folks who don't can't and will try to tell you it's impossible or it doesn't matter.

 

[ART338WM]

Kind of an update, just found a LGS that has CZ P10C's in stock I plan on going there and checking one out, if I like it , it will likely go home with me.