Here’s what really led to the Florida School shooting:

[jedi]

Wow, where'd you find this at? Think it'll make the national news?

We really need to take the wind out of the gun control conversation before the anti's fool around and get their way. Real facts about this sort of thing and law enforcement not doing their job should be top of the page.

I cant blame the police, the street cop, on this one. Sure some are jbt and some are good officers but if their mamagement is telling them NOT to arrest the school kids no matter what the offesnse is how can they be blamed?

 

[bwframe]

They control what is at the top of the page and this is not what they want up there. They have set the hook. Now they will land the big fish.

Pretty much. There are those presidential tweets that often change up the game though. Lotta news stories as of late aren't what would be normally, other than reporting on the controversial tweet.

I cant blame the police, the street cop, on this one. Sure some are jbt and some are good officers but if their mamagement is telling them NOT to arrest the school kids no matter what the offesnse is how can they be blamed?

We can no longer continue to refuse to hold anyone accountable because it's not the low level guy's fault. The same can be said for the school administration. Seems as though that is exactly why we are talking about this...
...AGAIN.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Wow, where'd you find this at? Think it'll make the national news?

We really need to take the wind out of the gun control conversation before the anti's fool around and get their way. Real facts about this sort of thing and law enforcement not doing their job should be top of the page.

If it ever does make it's way to front page, the lead off story of news casts, etc., you can bet there'll be some scandal or trumped up story to make this go away. We just need Trump and the congress from caving in too soon.

 

[Drail]

Trump is only worrying about one thing now. Getting re elected. He's going to make a great politician.

 

[chipbennett]

Wow, where'd you find this at? Think it'll make the national news?

We really need to take the wind out of the gun control conversation before the anti's fool around and get their way. Real facts about this sort of thing and law enforcement not doing their job should be top of the page.

Let's just say that I was part of the crowd-sourced research that helped tie the inventoried goods in Trayvon Martin's possession to a police report of stolen goods from a home nearby. (The internet - and mostly the effort of other people, not me - actually got those goods returned to the homeowner who had been robbed.) That same group unearthed the school's no-arrest policy, and its application to Trayvon Martin. So, the information is somewhat firsthand. I'm sure I could go back and find the sources, but it would take me a minute.

 

[SS 396]

Parenting. A lost art.

You are so right Churchmouse, My 14yr old son and i have a close relationship i have always tried to raise him right like i was. We always do things together always have, when he was young and i came home from work worn out and he wanted to play with me and his toys i was never to tired to give him my full attention and have fun with him.

It made the crappy day at work way less important, i go anywhere now he is in the truck right beside me if i go he wants to come along and i love that. He does great in school and his teachers tell me what an outstanding young man he is. Not trying to brag on my kid but sure makes me damn proud of him. Any way i think alot of parents today are to lazy to raise them properly and that is when the problems arise.

 

[actaeon277]

You are so right Churchmouse, My 14yr old son and i have a close relationship i have always tried to raise him right like i was. We always do things together always have, when he was young and i came home from work worn out and he wanted to play with me and his toys i was never to tired to give him my full attention and have fun with him.

It made the crappy day at work way less important, i go anywhere now he is in the truck right beside me if i go he wants to come along and i love that. He does great in school and his teachers tell me what an outstanding young man he is. Not trying to brag on my kid but sure makes me damn proud of him. Any way i think alot of parents today are to lazy to raise them properly and that is when the problems arise.

 

[KellyinAvon]

It is exactly as written.

In the very same Broward County school district, a certain 17-year-old young man was the "beneficiary" of this policy, and did not receive a criminal citation for being found at school in possession of stolen property from a nearby home robbery, or for engaging in after school "fight clubs", or for being found at school in possession of drug paraphernalia. That young man was suspended from school for these things, and sent by his mother to serve out his school suspension in the home of his father's then-girlfriend. That young man later assaulted a local resident, and was subsequently killed in self-defense by that resident.

That young man's name was Trayvon Martin: both a beneficiary and a victim of the very same policy that aided Cruz.

I learned this from a video that discussed several things about Trayvon Martin, including the autopsy finding serious liver damage from abusing purple drank. I can't remember who it was (seems like he does a lot of videos that break down different controversial situations) but I remember there being an effort to decrease the number of arrests by not reporting crime to the police.

 

[HoosierLife]

Well I will be in Washington in a week and a half. We go there every year apart of a group called Capitol Connection. Mostly pastors from across the country. We will meet with our Senators and Congressman to pray with them. Also, being from Indiana, we have a special invite to sit in on VP Pence’s weekly Bible study at the White House. He met with our group for about 45 minutes last year.

They say we should get to see him again and maybe even the President this year. They can never confirm of course.

I really think if President Trump was privy to this info he would be tweeting up a storm.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I cant blame the police, the street cop, on this one. Sure some are jbt and some are good officers but if their mamagement is telling them NOT to arrest the school kids no matter what the offesnse is how can they be blamed?

Actually that isn't quite accurate, the policy is to generally not arrest for non-violent misd, repeated violations can be charged, it is also up to the officer whether or not to charge. I may not agree with the reasons for it down there, but I can't necessarily find fault with the idea itself. How many on here have complained about "zero tolerance" in schools. IIRC there was a student in IN that was arrested and prosecuted for accidentally leaving a shotgun he had used for hunting in the trunk of his car when he went to school. That is a felony in IN, but I seem to remember outrage over it on this site. A boy scout accidentally leaves a knife in his backpack after a camp out? Should he be prosecuted?

Here is a recent story from IN, 18 yr old with an LTCH accidentally brings his Glock 43 into school. Realizes it and informs the SRO and asks if he can be given a break. Arrested. Do you think that was the proper outcome? Do you think he should be expelled and prosecuted, or perhaps some lesser punishment may be effective?
Student gets felony charge after mistakenly bringing loaded gun to Griffith school: police - Post-Tribune

 

[BugI02]

You speak eloquently of officers having the discretion to help make the punishment fit the crime. However, in the case of Broward Co it seems to have been more a policy to make the numbers fit the federal guidelines. If the information about the many things the latest shooter got away with are correct, it seems any officer intent on common sense enforcement targeting the good of the community would have referred the kid many times over the 1 1/2 to 2 years prior to the crime

When common sense does not underly the use of discretion, and it becomes public knowledge, that discretion is usually taken away (zero tolerance)

 

[Woobie]

Discretion is a wonderful thing right up until the indiscretion.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Actually that isn't quite accurate, the policy is to generally not arrest for non-violent misd, repeated violations can be charged, it is also up to the officer whether or not to charge. I may not agree with the reasons for it down there, but I can't necessarily find fault with the idea itself. How many on here have complained about "zero tolerance" in schools. IIRC there was a student in IN that was arrested and prosecuted for accidentally leaving a shotgun he had used for hunting in the trunk of his car when he went to school. That is a felony in IN, but I seem to remember outrage over it on this site. A boy scout accidentally leaves a knife in his backpack after a camp out? Should he be prosecuted?

Here is a recent story from IN, 18 yr old with an LTCH accidentally brings his Glock 43 into school. Realizes it and informs the SRO and asks if he can be given a break. Arrested. Do you think that was the proper outcome? Do you think he should be expelled and prosecuted, or perhaps some lesser punishment may be effective?
Student gets felony charge after mistakenly bringing loaded gun to Griffith school: police - Post-Tribune

One thing to keep in mind with these kinds of policies is that they are designed to keep the number of days of missed school at a minimum, and the number of expelled students to a minimum. The incentive to reduce the number of students that are arrested is based on those first two things.

So, knowing that they will inevitably be forced to make decisions about students being suspended, expelled, and/or arrested, the policy actually makes it more attractive to discipline a student that is a good kid, with good parents, because they know that whatever action is taken, that student is more likely to deal with it and get back to school as soon as possible, instead of the student for which any discipline is likely to lead to more missed school, more time on the street, and more trouble. That's why the "good kid who makes a mistake" might be more likely to have "zero tolerance", because it would lead to an over-all better outcome for the school, than if they show the same treatment to a "disadvantaged kid".

 

[Timjoebillybob]

You speak eloquently of officers having the discretion to help make the punishment fit the crime. However, in the case of Broward Co it seems to have been more a policy to make the numbers fit the federal guidelines. If the information about the many things the latest shooter got away with are correct, it seems any officer intent on common sense enforcement targeting the good of the community would have referred the kid many times over the 1 1/2 to 2 years prior to the crime

When common sense does not underly the use of discretion, and it becomes public knowledge, that discretion is usually taken away (zero tolerance)

As I said, I may not agree with the reasoning they used in this policy, that does not discredit this type of policy as a whole. I haven't heard much about the scumbags run in at school that violated policy or law. I've heard he was caught once with ammo, and I think a couple of fights. What else?

I'll disagree on the reason that "zero tolerance" was put into place, IMO it was more due to screams of discrimination, where one child may have been punished differently for the same offence than another.

Discretion is a wonderful thing right up until the indiscretion.

So do you believe that discretion should be allowed, or should zero tolerance, one size fits all rule?

One thing to keep in mind with these kinds of policies is that they are designed to keep the number of days of missed school at a minimum, and the number of expelled students to a minimum. The incentive to reduce the number of students that are arrested is based on those first two things.

From what I understand this policy was put in place due to disparity in the amount of minorities charged. Per the agreement/policy "WHEREAS, across the country, students of color, students with disabilities and LGBTQ students are disproportionately impacted by school-based arrests for the same behavior as their peers"
https://www.scribd.com/document/371...Agreement-on-School-Discipline-MOU#from_embed

 

[BugI02]

As I said, I may not agree with the reasoning they used in this policy, that does not discredit this type of policy as a whole. I haven't heard much about the scumbags run in at school that violated policy or law. I've heard he was caught once with ammo, and I think a couple of fights. What else? [snip]

Beyond the online threat to become a school shooter, specific death threats to specific peers who he blamed for the breakup with his girlfriend and to the student she eventually started a new relationship with. This particular article doesn't delve into it, but he was not allowed to bring a backpack onto campus. haven't seen the reasoning laid out but that would indicate to me the school considered him dangerous.

Law enforcement missed chances to arrest Parkland shooter | Miami Herald
Shooter could have faced charges before massacre — had cops done their job, experts say


https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...ls-policy-report-fewer-infractions-to-police/
How Did the Parkland Shooter Slip Through the Cracks?

 

[Woobie]

So do you believe that discretion should be allowed, or should zero tolerance, one size fits all rule?

My statement was more of an offer of a proverb of sorts, rather than a commentary on this situation.


But, since you asked. I support officer discretion. What I don't like is a systematic effort, conspiracy really, to not enforce laws for the purpose of accessing federal grant money. In a way, this is like the widespread non-enforcement of theft because enforcement manpower is directed toward drugs, which is tied to fed dollars.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

So do you believe that discretion should be allowed, or should zero tolerance, one size fits all rule?

Don't discount the usefulness of one-size-fits-all rules. Their only real failing, really, is in the specificity of the writing.

Most are more fans of discretion, but then we argue about the application of the discretion, ie: If we like the kid, we want him to get a break, but if we don't like the kid, we might not.

In my own experience in school, and with my own kids in school, I saw discretion let a lot of "good kids" get off the hook when they shouldn't have been, and I saw some kids that I thought were unfairly punished, because they or their parents weren't in the "in" crowd.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Beyond the online threat to become a school shooter, specific death threats to specific peers who he blamed for the breakup with his girlfriend and to the student she eventually started a new relationship with. This particular article doesn't delve into it, but he was not allowed to bring a backpack onto campus. haven't seen the reasoning laid out but that would indicate to me the school considered him dangerous.

Law enforcement missed chances to arrest Parkland shooter | Miami Herald
Shooter could have faced charges before massacre — had cops done their job, experts say


https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...ls-policy-report-fewer-infractions-to-police/
How Did the Parkland Shooter Slip Through the Cracks?

The online threats about shooting up the school weren't made from school, and I can't find where they were reported to the school. The only threats that are posted that I can find(the others were deleted apparently) the person receiving them seemed to think they were empty threats and was egging him on and posting memes. I kinda doubt that one was reported. The backpack from what I read in another article was related to him bringing bullets. And two fights, one of which both were suspended and one which happened off school property and the person ran away. I'm not saying people didn't screw up, just saying it may not have been the fault of this policy.

My statement was more of an offer of a proverb of sorts, rather than a commentary on this situation.


But, since you asked. I support officer discretion. What I don't like is a systematic effort, conspiracy really, to not enforce laws for the purpose of accessing federal grant money. In a way, this is like the widespread non-enforcement of theft because enforcement manpower is directed toward drugs, which is tied to fed dollars.

I can agree with this.

Don't discount the usefulness of one-size-fits-all rules. Their only real failing, really, is in the specificity of the writing.

Most are more fans of discretion, but then we argue about the application of the discretion, ie: If we like the kid, we want him to get a break, but if we don't like the kid, we might not.

In my own experience in school, and with my own kids in school, I saw discretion let a lot of "good kids" get off the hook when they shouldn't have been, and I saw some kids that I thought were unfairly punished, because they or their parents weren't in the "in" crowd.

Yes there can be abuse with discretion, I never said there couldn't be. But in the case I listed above an 18 yr old with a ltch accidentally brings his carry pistol to school and reports it to the SRO, should be treated the same as someone who is found to be in possession of a pistol for an unproven but suspected nefarious reason? Both violated the exact same law. They should both be charged, prosecuted, and expelled?

 

[SLIM86]

The issue is not the gun, how about we look at the failure of the system i guess being alerted 39 times, including the would be shooter calling and warning the sheriff's dept and contacting the FBI isn't enough....

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The issue is not the gun, how about we look at the failure of the system i guess being alerted 39 times, including the would be shooter calling and warning the sheriff's dept and contacting the FBI isn't enough....

The 39x is in dispute, maybe higher, maybe lower. But do you have a cite that the shooter called and warned the Sheriff's dept/FBI?