Home Defense;Precision required

[ViperJock]

INGO,
Clearly there are many options to choose from when you defend your home. I am interested in reading your opinions for defense in a specific scenario: your loved one as a hostage. This is my worst nightmare and a situation that I hope never to face. As such, I spend a significant amount of time and effort trying to avoid the situation as well as planning to face it.

So the question is; in the specific example of a loved one held hostage by an armed attacker in your own home (assume negotiation is not an option) which weapon would you prefer to be holding?

For or the sake of simplicity, assume that any and all accessories needed can be carried on a rig of some kind. This includes bacon, lights, lasers, spare ammo, knife etc. Basically I don't want accessories to be the issue. Focus on the weapon itself.

i consider this a training tactic but please move as necessary mods.

 

[Jackson]

At what distance? Inside the space of a resedential bedroom? I would be equally uncomfortable with a pistol or a carbine. I would prefer not to be stuck holding the shotgun, but it would work inside the distance of my house. It would just push the boundaries of my comfort.

 

[ViperJock]

At what distance? Inside the space of a resedential bedroom? I would be equally uncomfortable with a pistol or a carbine. I would prefer not to be stuck holding the shotgun.

Its your house-you tell me. For me, I consider bedroom door to far corner to be the most common distance. But obviously there could be longer and shorter distances as well.

my current training involves an AR with a pistol, spare light, mags, knife on a belt.

 

[Jackson]

When precision is my goal at most any distance, a rifle is going to be my choice. I'll take the AR. I have a pretty small house, so a pistol would workable. I'm probably not going to feel good about the situation regardless of the firearm, though.

 

[flatlander]

You watched NCIS L.A., or whatever it's called, last night didn't you?
IIRC they said something like," We need precision inside so it's Sigs and knives" They had SBRs available with all the bells and whistles but took pistols. They were going inside a "shoothouse" with tarpaper walls and were worried the SBRs would penetrate too much! IMHO

 

[x10]

Shooting Indoors at close range the 223 would be devastating to whom ever was in the room, as would any rifle round, in a hostage situation across my biggest room in my house the muzzle blast would damage the eyes and ears of the person I was trying to save, I agree that I would never let a person leave with a family member, But I don't see a win with a rifle or shotgun inside the house, A pistol would probably still do damage to ears and possibly the high speed debris might damage eyes

It's a bad time for everyone involved

 

[netsecurity]

I've done shoot house training with an AR-15 equipped with Aimpoint 1x red dot optics, and I am confident that it is the best tool for the purpose you listed. Raise the barrel, view dot on top of forehead, pull trigger. It is really that easy. Breathing, grip, stance, gun position, trigger pull, and all those other variables that are absolutely critical with handguns, can almost be totally ignored, and you can still get a head shot with ease at close range with an AR-15. That is really important, since you will probably suffer from the extreme effects of stress and fear, which will impair your fine motor skills.

I think the military and SWAT nation-wide agree almost unanimously, so you kinda have your answer right there. You can argue for something like the MP5, but I say an AR-15 SBR has all its advantages, plus the extra power/range.

 

[x10]

I've done shoot house training with an AR-15 equipped with Aimpoint 1x red dot optics, and I am confident that it is the best tool for the purpose you listed. Raise the barrel, view dot on top of forehead, pull trigger. It is really that easy. Breathing, grip, stance, gun position, trigger pull, and all those other variables that are absolutely critical with handguns, can almost be totally ignored, and you can still get a head shot with ease at close range with an AR-15. That is really important, since you will probably suffer from the extreme effects of stress and fear, which will impair your fine motor skills.

I think the military and SWAT nation-wide agree almost unanimously, so you kinda have your answer right there. You can argue for something like the MP5, but I say an AR-15 SBR has all its advantages, plus the extra power/range.

Swat, Military, Nation wide are not shooting at my Family, They are willing to accept collateral damage, I'm not

 

[ViperJock]

You watched NCIS L.A., or whatever it's called, last night didn't you?
IIRC they said something like," We need precision inside so it's Sigs and knives" They had SBRs available with all the bells and whistles but took pistols. They were going inside a "shoothouse" with tarpaper walls and were worried the SBRs would penetrate too much! IMHO

Haha! I never watch that. It's not NCIS with Jethro.

 

[churchmouse]

Any high power center fire is way overkill if you live in the city. Even a .22Lr will punch into a neighbors house if no studs are in it's path.

I voted hand gun but we also have a pump gun and a baseball bat. Use what you have but try and fit it into your living conditions.

If you live rural a center fire long gun would be OK but not in the city.

 

[rhino]

Are we supposed to vote on what we have and keep for this intended use, or what we would prefer if we had it? For instance, I don't have an SBR AR with a suppressor, but that is what I would prefer to use if I needed it.

 

[rvb]

I would feel equally confident w/ either my AR or my glock in making a tight shot, but I voted handgun since that eliminates having to worry about hold-off due to sight height at close range.... that was the only discriminator I could come up w/.

I don't even own a suitable shotgun; not a fan for home defense purposes.

-rvb

 

[dmarsh8]

No AR yet so, pick up pistol and head for predetermined place
if possible. Bullpup 12ga there but I could shoot the pistol
With much more precision.

 

[lovemachine]

I don't even own a suitable shotgun; not a fan for home defense purposes.

How come?

 

[Manatee]

Poll invalid: No bacon choice.

 

[halfmileharry]

I'm going to stay in my comfort zone. I'm more than adequate with my handgun in all close range situations. Though it's been quite a while I've had a lot of training and a bit of experience. Old rusty arse has-been thinking maybe?

 

[halfmileharry]

Poll invalid: No bacon choice.

I noticed but was speechless. It's beyond belief.

 

[rhino]

I would feel equally confident w/ either my AR or my glock in making a tight shot, but I voted handgun since that eliminates having to worry about hold-off due to sight height at close range.... that was the only discriminator I could come up w/.

I know Aimpoints are the Bee's Knees, but one of the advantages of EOTechs is their reticle pattern. The hash mark on the bottom of the outer circle is just right for your holdover a few yards and less. You do have to remember to use it that way, but at least you don't have to hold a dot over the top of an "upper A Zone."

 

[cosermann]

I agree that long guns are more precise, no doubt about it.

However, I had to vote handgun for a few reasons:

1. At those distances I have no trouble putting a shot in the occular window (my interpretation of "precision" in this thread), and practice it. So, it's precise enough.

2. I don't typically practice with an AR at those distances and am not sure about compensating for the sight/barrel axis offset (hold over) at those distances (and doing so covers the target, no?). Otherwise this would be my pick. A rifle in a pistol caliber cartridge with minimal sight offset, like a lever gun, might be ideal, mightn't it? This would be the "long gun not mentioned" category.

3. Although I know my shotgun will put all the buckshot pellets in the head at that distance, it's kind of a crap shoot whether one would go in a precise spot (i.e. buckshot lacks precision). Add to this that I can't control where the wad goes very well (and I'd hate to hit someone with a wad at that distance), and buckshot is out. Would have to switch to a slug for precision. Should easily be able to shoot a 2" group across a room. But, would I have the time to switch shells, since I'd probably have the HD gun loaded w/buckshot? Hmm.

So, for me, I guess it's more about what I'm comfortable with rather than the ideal firearm for the stated scenario.

But, if I got to pick the gun ahead of time, I'd probably go for a pistol caliber carbine.

 

[rvb]

I don't even own a suitable shotgun; not a fan for home defense purposes.

How come?

Lots of reasons...


1) capacity. I can get 8 rounds in a 1911, I don't need a firearm 3 feet long to hold that many rounds. (17 in my G19, 28 in the AR).

2) recoil. the wife needs to be able to use it too, and not be afraid of it. She shoots well, but doesn't like a lot of recoil or noise. She handles the G19 fine. I'm waiting on paperwork to help w/ the noise from the AR so she will be willing to practice with it more.

3) reliability. I ran a pump 12ga in a 3-gun a few years back. I learned real fast that it's very easy to short stroke and screw yourself if you get into an awkward/crowded position and/or aren't very familiar/practiced w/ working the action. There are some reliable semis, but you have to know/test your gear as some really need a 'correct/ideal' mount to cycle right.

4) aiming. There's a lot more to know/remember than "bullet goes where the sight is." For the most part w/ an AR you can ignore holdover, unless you need a super precise shot like in this scenario. W. a shotgun w/ a bead, there's more to an accurate shot (eg shouldered properly, how much of the vent rib you see, etc). The wife isn't going to practice as much as me, and that's harder to get down. Heck I borrowed a buddies M1 for a 3-gun match recently, and while getting familiar w/ it my first slug was under the target about 2' at ~15yds. had to adjust, learn, and apply under pressure. I'm looking at shotguns for 3-gun game use, and I'm going to be looking into a post/apperature setup for sure. Not to mention there's the whole pattern thing to be aware of.

5) reloads. reloading a shotgun sucks.

I'm sure I could come up w/ more reasons shotguns suck. and yea, there are a couple of "pros" that could be listed. But hell, I'd prefer my 642.

Before bed time when lounging in my family room, the AR is close by. Up in bed, the G19 is close. both are part of my plans. I sold my 590 pump.

-rvb