How do I respond?

[Mrs Evilwrench]

I am an "old" woman (50!) going to school for massage therapy. I am also the lone Conservative in a small group of moonbats, with the exception of one of our instructors who is a 4-time Purple Heart-awarded Veteran. Now sometimes it just seems to me like 2 of the women, both of whom are in their 40's, intentionally bait me with comments like " guns should never have been made" and "why does anyone NEED a silencer?" I cannot seem to, gently but firmly, help them see that MY Rights are just that- MINE! I have told them how more children drowned in swimming pools last year than all of the school killings in the past, oh, 100 years; that more people are killed with hammers than rifles; that the first murder ever was committed with a stone... but I am wrong because I choose to own and use firearms. Interestingly, though, one of the women said "Well, if things ever get too bad, I know where you live"...Really?????
I know this is an ongoing theme here and in the world, and I need to work closely with these women for another year. I usually try my best to not say anything ( "Oh, look at France, they really have an excellent social medical plan going") but there are times when I just cannot believe the things that these people say!
Any suggestions???

 

[eldirector]

Don't respond?

The company I work for is based in DC. So, I tend to just keep my opinions (and even known facts) to myself.

It is tough not to socialize with folks you spend a great deal of time with. It is safer, though.

 

[Roscoe38]

I am an "old" woman (50!) going to school for massage therapy. I am also the lone Conservative in a small group of moonbats, with the exception of one of our instructors who is a 4-time Purple Heart-awarded Veteran. Now sometimes it just seems to me like 2 of the women, both of whom are in their 40's, intentionally bait me with comments like " guns should never have been made" and "why does anyone NEED a silencer?" I cannot seem to, gently but firmly, help them see that MY Rights are just that- MINE! I have told them how more children drowned in swimming pools last year than all of the school killings in the past, oh, 100 years; that more people are killed with hammers than rifles; that the first murder ever was committed with a stone... but I am wrong because I choose to own and use firearms. Interestingly, though, one of the women said "Well, if things ever get too bad, I know where you live"...Really?????
I know this is an ongoing theme here and in the world, and I need to work closely with these women for another year. I usually try my best to not say anything ( "Oh, look at France, they really have an excellent social medical plan going") but there are times when I just cannot believe the things that these people say!
Any suggestions???

50 is not old, you are 25 years my junior, so forget that one. As a High School Freshman I was a whopping 4'10" and 95 lbs. I was a punching bag, but I learned how to play dirty and be happy with myself. Eventually the "Cool" crowd left me alone and my high school days have left me a lot of pleasant memories.

Being a member of this forum has probably given you the tools to deal with these morons. However most of the solutions to your problem are not legal. Silence is golden in these situations. I realize that the creator (nah, I won't go there!), But, your silence will eventually get through to these people...You are just not interested in their opinions, these "moonbats" must be treated as non-persons or invisible to get your point across. ("moonbats", haven't heard that one for a while). In passing you might inform them that your guns are not for their protection, no more, no less, end of conversation. 911 works well for these people. NOT. Good luck and It's only A little while longer

Hang in, get your Cert. and remember no matter where you go there will always be "moonbats" just pick the ones with which you want to socialize.

Joe

 

[nascarfantoo]

First, remember that 50 is the new 30!

I frequently am faced with similar comments within my extended family. I simply tell them that I enjoy my firearms and the associated shooting sports, just like they might enjoy their hobbies. Have invited a few to spend an afternoon at the range just to experience it. But in the end, it is often best to drop it. If they know their opinion irritates me, then they only express it more.

 

[the1kidd03]

I could almost make a career out dealing with anti-gunners, if you could just apply money to it. LOL

I've intentionally (and often times unintentionally) put myself into situations of communicating with people who are not keen on the idea of guns and self-defense. I've done this for some time now and I've developed an entire class around it, just to be able to do it MORE. I do this for a variety of reasons. Primarily, to learn how better to interact with them and investigate the most effective ways to get them to see the light. I study a lot of psychology and am able to put those principles into play here in various ways. It's much more difficult to "explain how to handle such people" than it is to simply be the one doing it because of the dynamic nature of conversation. But, I will see if I cannot aid you in your efforts for the greater good.

First of all, in all of my research and dealing with so many anti-gun personalities I will say that there are very few minds which cannot be changed and reasoned with compared to what many gun owners believe there to be. It's simply a process of elimination to help you determine if you have one of those few people. For ease of explanation, the usual type of person who's mind will NOT change, are those who morally do not agree with people even having the MEANS to take someone's life. There is a variety of religious and moral factors to consider here, but in the simplest form, to them there is no justification to have that capability. Even if it means their or someone they love's life.

Granted, this category of people are pretty few and far between. More often then not, they either are from another culture or they were raised by parents who may have migrated here. Regardless, through your conversations if you are able to identify this as being the root cause of their disdain for guns, then it's best left alone. Such beliefs are often so deeply rooted in someone from an early age that it is highly unlikely to change no matter how you go about it. I've tried. Being able to identify this trait earlier will simply keep you from wasting your time.

The other limiting factor is their willingness to hear logic, facts, and reason. There are some, that for whatever reason are not willing to listen or discuss anything which doesn't suit their existing beliefs. Again, these are even fewer IME but they do exist. Often times, you can sort of "manipulate" them through conversation into hearing just enough facts to catch their attention to listen to more. From there, it's about what is presented and how. Understanding their perspective, why they feel how they do, is key to taking this on.

The far majority of people who are opposed to guns are so merely out of
1. lack of knowledge (whether it's in guns, defense, etc. they simply don't know what they haven't been taught and this area of info is not taught in schools typically)
2. ineffective stereotyping (which combined with #1 provides the foundation for developing an irrational and subconscious fear). Yes, fear can be unrealized and subconscious. More often then not, they WILL deny being afraid; even if they are simply because they don't realize they are due to lack of exposure.

Regardless of ANYTHING else, if you truly want to bring someone to "our side" it takes TIME and PATIENCE. A year of conversations may or may NOT be enough for some people. It just depends on them and various other things. Patience on your end is where most gun owners fall short (that and a lack of effective communication skills). Many gun owners tend to push the issue each chance they get as far as they can. This does not "win any hearts." In fact, it can lead them to resent you and otherwise make them avoid discussing the topic with you further to any degree. Letting THEM guide the conversation and addressing their points, nicely and factually is what "wins the race." However, this race could take dozens of conversations over many months to get anywhere.

 

[JetGirl]

It is tough not to socialize with folks you spend a great deal of time with. It is safer, though.

And there ya have it.

 

[Mrs Evilwrench]

Thank you for your help! I don't think 50 is old, just when sitting next to my 19-year-old classmate! Interestingly, the two youngest (19, 20) tend to lean more towards my point of view than the moonbats' ideas, so there may be hope yet! I try to keep my mouth shut, but the other day one of the moonbats was going on about how guns should never have been invented, they are the cause of all the wars, and the world would be a much better safer world without guns of any kind. Right......so I very calmly pointed out that there are more dangerous weapons in the average American kitchen than anywhere else. She didn't like me comparing knives, rolling pins, and heavy skillets to weapons; after all, that's not what they were designed to do and guns are only designed to kill. Oh well. I try not to get suckered in to these conversations, but there are two young ladies who appreciate hearing a different side to the argument, and it is more for their sake than for any other reason that I will continue to put some unemotionally-based facts out on the table.

 

[Rookie]

Have you tried punching them in the ovaries?

 

[Birds Away]

Have you tried punching them in the ovaries?

Another reason I like drinking water instead of soda pop. Doesn't hurt nearly as bad when it comes out through the nose.

 

[the1kidd03]

Thank you for your help! I don't think 50 is old, just when sitting next to my 19-year-old classmate! Interestingly, the two youngest (19, 20) tend to lean more towards my point of view than the moonbats' ideas, so there may be hope yet! I try to keep my mouth shut, but the other day one of the moonbats was going on about how guns should never have been invented, they are the cause of all the wars, and the world would be a much better safer world without guns of any kind. Right......so I very calmly pointed out that there are more dangerous weapons in the average American kitchen than anywhere else. She didn't like me comparing knives, rolling pins, and heavy skillets to weapons; after all, that's not what they were designed to do and guns are only designed to kill. Oh well. I try not to get suckered in to these conversations, but there are two young ladies who appreciate hearing a different side to the argument, and it is more for their sake than for any other reason that I will continue to put some unemotionally-based facts out on the table.

In terms of addressing their opinion on knives and other tools, point out that according the BOJ only 7% of all violent crimes are committed with a gun vs. over 70% with edged weapons, may help. These numbers were also cited in the recent senate debates earlier this year.

If her argument is that knives "were not designed to kill" then that's laughable. Knives were designed for exactly that. Killing and processing food sources. Point out that this just goes to show it matters not what it's "capable of," all that matters is what the person wielding it is willing or intending to do with it. "Has she ever tried to kill someone with her knife?" No? Well there you go. It's a dangerous tool, but not in her hands because that's not her intentions.

 

[Birds Away]

It's certainly a shame they don't love their families enough to want to protect them from harm. I suppose that's why they support abortion on demand so they don't have to bear that burden.

 

[the1kidd03]

It's certainly a shame they don't love their families enough to want to protect them from harm. I suppose that's why they support abortion on demand so they don't have to bear that burden.

That is a point, which can often bring a person around to the realization of a weapons usefulness to ordinary people. Use real life, current examples and ask them what they would do if it were their home and their family at risk. The recent armed robber who kicked in the door for instance, or any other example. Apply it to them and ask them how they intend to handle it. If they are still resistant to logic in their response, then you can alter your phrasing to bring out more emotion such as: "Why don't you care enough about your children to want to protect them from harm?"

Yes, to us it's sort of a low blow, but sometimes communicating on a more emotional level is what gets their attention. I do this in my class by showing actual video of certain instances which both demonstrate the point as well as can be used to bring up an emotional response that motivates them to think outside of their norm.

 

[eldirector]

I dunno. I've actually had conversations with "moon bats" (where on earth did that term come from) where I learned that a dead women/child is morally superior to a living woman/child that used force to protect themselves. Victims, especially brutally murdered ones, are near god status.

You can't argue with that. Seriously. You can't. There is no point.

 

[the1kidd03]

I dunno. I've actually had conversations with "moon bats" (where on earth did that term come from) where I learned that a dead women/child is morally superior to a living woman/child that used force to protect themselves. Victims, especially brutally murdered ones, are near god status.

You can't argue with that. Seriously. You can't. There is no point.

That's the type which belong to my 1st category of "unresponsive" persons. Once you can identify their bias against guns is of moral or religious foundation to not taking a life, then just drop the issue. Chances are you will not get anywhere. I've met very few people I cannot convert if given enough time to communicate with them. That is the one category where no amount of time will make a difference.

Every once in a rare blue moon, they MIGHT be swayed by traumatic experience, but that's few and far between.

 

[Birds Away]

That is a point, which can often bring a person around to the realization of a weapons usefulness to ordinary people. Use real life, current examples and ask them what they would do if it were their home and their family at risk. The recent armed robber who kicked in the door for instance, or any other example. Apply it to them and ask them how they intend to handle it. If they are still resistant to logic in their response, then you can alter your phrasing to bring out more emotion such as: "Why don't you care enough about your children to want to protect them from harm?"

Yes, to us it's sort of a low blow, but sometimes communicating on a more emotional level is what gets their attention. I do this in my class by showing actual video of certain instances which both demonstrate the point as well as can be used to bring up an emotional response that motivates them to think outside of their norm.

Pointing out that in one of the latest incidents two women were sexually assualted might get their attention also.

 

[the1kidd03]

Pointing out that in one of the latest incidents two women were sexually assualted might get their attention also.

Indeed. A lot of such people live under the belief that things like this simply don't happen or don't happen near them. Well, now lately they're seeing more proof to that being false. That makes it more of a matter of making it personal for them. Figuring out what strikes their little nerve and makes them think realistically.

Rape is a good one for women. Being around college students a lot, I'll use the example of that college girl ( I believe from CO) who was held down and raped right underneath the campus emergency call button. Out in the open, nobody nearby to help, inches away from a button and not able to get to it. This really shatters their "bubble" of perceived safety measures.

It doesn't need to be that extreme all the time, but sometimes that's what it takes. Different people have different motivators. For some it might be harm to their children while others it might be harm to themselves like the previous example which gets them to start thinking.

I try to get violent crime victims I work with to come out and speak about their experiences, but most aren't willing to do so publically (understandably so.)

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'm a bit surprised nobody's mentioned inviting them to go shooting. To thekidd's point, at least one of them, many times we are afraid of things with which we're not familiar. It's possible you may take the one or more of the ones that are a bit more sympathetic, show them shooting can be fun, and gain "ally(ies)" to drown out the moonbat.

 

[the1kidd03]

I'm a bit surprised nobody's mentioned inviting them to go shooting. To thekidd's point, at least one of them, many times we are afraid of things with which we're not familiar. It's possible you may take the one or more of the ones that are a bit more sympathetic, show them shooting can be fun, and gain "ally(ies)" to drown out the moonbat.

That often really drives it home to them. It's usually more challenging to get them to a point of being willing to go however. It all just depends on the person, but I've yet to take someone shooting and them not like it...that's for sure.

I spent the first several months of this year working with someone who had developed a true phobia of firearms and she never knew it. She grew up in a house with guns. Years later her husband takes her to a shop and when one starts to come out from behind the glass she runs in tears to the other side of the store. I worked with her over several weeks to overcome this, but they first have to realize they've developed a fear. For her, it was apparent so they sought me out. Others who aren't around them never get presented with a situation to realize they've developed this fear. It can be a long process for some. The lady I worked took her first shots only a couple months ago. She now carries on her every day, and text me a pic just last week of her new AR they were taking to the range. To this day my wife doesn't understand where I get the patience to work with people in this fashion, LOL.

 

[Cameramonkey]

... one of the women said "Well, if things ever get too bad, I know where you live"...Really????? ...
Any suggestions???

My response would have been. "Dont bother. I will not be the ant to your grasshoper. If guns are evil when you dont NEED them, then you shouldnt reap the benefits when you DO need them. If they are truly evil and bad with no merit, then you should not rely on them. EVER. As you think I am a lunatic now, you would not be welcome in my home in your scenario. You can go down with the rest of your kind."

While I wouldnt mind helping those that are indifferent to guns, I refuse to help in the future those who actively fight against me today. I will not be your protector when its convenient for you.

 

[cosermann]

... "moon bats" (where on earth did that term come from) ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonbat

... I've met very few people I cannot convert if given enough time to communicate with them. ....

These would be the rare blue moonbat.