How mad should I be?

[Alpo]

In his specific circumstance, the testing has already been performed.

In general circumstances, it's a good thing to have this form of testing. Many parents aren't as diligent.

I would object to invasive procedures by a school nurse or contracted professional. I wouldn't object to a hearing test or a vision test.

 

[marvin02]

In his specific circumstance, the testing has already been performed.

In general circumstances, it's a good thing to have this form of testing. Many parents aren't as diligent.

I would object to invasive procedures by a school nurse or contracted professional. I wouldn't object to a hearing test or a vision test.

That is your choice. The OP had declined having the testing done and the school specifically went against his wishes.

In addition the teacher accused his daughter of lying and forced her to participate in the screening. This put the child in a stressful situation where she could obey her teacher or her parents. A person of authority who uses their institutional power to in this manner is the worst kind of bully.

 

[Alpo]

No argument.

These topics were the types of things discussed at PTA's when I was a lad. I have no idea what they do now.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

In his specific circumstance, the testing has already been performed.

In general circumstances, it's a good thing to have this form of testing. Many parents aren't as diligent.

I would object to invasive procedures by a school nurse or contracted professional. I wouldn't object to a hearing test or a vision test.

I don’t wanna get into a crazy discussion and take the thread off course, but you can decide what you want your kids to participate in and what not to participate in, that’s part of being the parent. This has nothing to do with quizzes and exams, not sure why you even went there with it. He has a dr that has performed those checks already, and declined the school permission to do so. I’d be po’d also. They send permission slips for a reason. Appearantly they just don’t follow them.

 

[Alpo]

Philosophically, a school is a instructional and testing facility. Academic performance is measured. I don't see that we disagree on that or on the school's role in that endeavor, although I think there has been quite a bit of complaint that "teaching to the test" is a substandard method of education.

I don't know if physical education is still a required segment of the school day. We used to be "tested" there as well. Pushups, situps, speed, agility. In fact, JFK gave an award for those who could pass his physical fitness test.

I suppose I just draw a different line in the sand then some. I don't mind a school testing academics, vision, hearing, physical capabilites, etc. I don't mind them checking for lice or ringworm either, because somebody out there doesn't take care of their own and it affects others in the area.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Philosophically, a school is a instructional and testing facility. Academic performance is measured. I don't see that we disagree on that or on the school's role in that endeavor, although I think there has been quite a bit of complaint that "teaching to the test" is a substandard method of education.

I don't know if physical education is still a required segment of the school day. We used to be "tested" there as well. Pushups, situps, speed, agility. In fact, JFK gave an award for those who could pass his physical fitness test.

I suppose I just draw a different line in the sand then some. I don't mind a school testing academics, vision, hearing, physical capabilites, etc. I don't mind them checking for lice or ringworm either, because somebody out there doesn't take care of their own and it affects others in the area.

Then lets leave it at that.

 

[churchmouse]

Unfortunately, homeschooling isn’t always the answer. Have you seen some parents, some are alive only because breathing is an involuntary action.

Every morning at 2 different schools when I drop the terrorists off at the state indoctrination centers. G-kids so not my call but yes I go to war with the Admins when required.

If you want to see what and where society is and is going...…..spend some time in the drop off lines in the A.M. All things will become much clearer.

 

[KittySlayer]

So, to the INGO collective... am I overreacting? Under-reacting? Just right?

While in my mind this would be annoying at the end of the day probably not the biggest deal in the world. The issue is the sloppy procedures that did not prevent this from happening. A firm but calm conversation is needed that concludes with some action items that the school administration will follow up on. The real concern is preventing something like this from happening again in the future.

As you go trough this staying calm when surrounded by incompetency and denial will be challenging. Just remember however you act will ultimately impact your daughter long term at the school. She is the one that has to deal with these morons daily. Don't be the crazy parent but do be the firm parent.

 

[marvin02]

......

Don't be the crazy parent but do be the firm parent.

 

[HoughMade]

In his specific circumstance, the testing has already been performed.

In general circumstances, it's a good thing to have this form of testing. Many parents aren't as diligent.

I would object to invasive procedures by a school nurse or contracted professional. I wouldn't object to a hearing test or a vision test.

Note the "shall" in the law.

https://learningconnection.doe.in.g...FileBookmarks.aspx%3fgid%3d458%26ugfid%3d9345

How this effects private schools, I do not know.

 

[actaeon277]

I'd be upset. Not yelling/screaming/dragged out by police upset.

Whether the test or information isn't that "important" or not doesn't matter.
You declined the test.
Then, the kid told a teacher, who ignored her.
Then, that whole "Lack of a consent letter implies consent" thing, that sounds wrong. Kids lose stuff, it stays in backpacks, etc. Should be an "opt-in".

 

[Alpo]

From Hough's cite:

IC 20-34-3-14
Hearing tests
Sec. 14. (a) The governing body of each school corporation shall annually conduct an audiometer test or a similar test to determine the hearing efficiency of the following students:
(1) Students in grade 1, grade 4, grade 7, and grade 10.
(2) A student who has transferred into the school corporation. (3) A student who is suspected of having hearing defects.
(b) A governing body may appoint the technicians and assistants necessary to perform the testing required under this section.
(c) Records of all tests shall be made and continuously maintained by the school corporation to provide information that may assist in diagnosing and treating any student's auditory abnormality. However, diagnosis and treatment shall be performed only on recommendation of an Indiana physician who has examined the student.
(d) The governing body may adopt rules for the administration of this section.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

From Hough's cite:

We already knew this... what’s the point? They’re allowed to administer hearing test, nothing new. They handed out permission slips to do so, was declined permission by the parent, and did it anyway. That’s the problem.

 

[jkaetz]

Our daycare just wanted us to approve vision screenings for our 22 month olds. We declined. I would not have been happy had they done it anyway.

I don't know... and for the record I'm not a parent, so I don't have the same point of view that you do... but I remember getting hearing tests in school (grade school) and to the best of my recollection, there were no permission slips required. They just did it. I think it was the school nurse that administered them. I guess I'm not understanding why it would be a big deal. With that said, I know that personal information is much more easily disseminated and perhaps with nefarious purposes today than it was back when I was in grade school. Do you have specific information that you're concerned about, like SSN, etc.?

• I highly doubt that these tests are performed by trained medial professionals and they certainly aren't in the ideal environment being in a facility who's purpose is teaching and learning rather than accessing a medical condition.
• School/daycare/government/state does not need my children's medial details
• I will have their hearing/vision/etc accessed by a Dr. of my choosing in a medical facility dedicated to the purpose
• I suspect that all of these screenings get dumped into a database and become someone's pet research project to push an agenda
• I have serious doubts about the ability of the information to be secured.

Big deal? Maybe not, but it's also not to be minimized either. In particular my last point is one that will likely not be realized for years to come. I intend to keep the surface area for potential information loss as small as possible for my children. It may turn into a non-issue but I'm not counting on it.

Don't be angry - it doesn't help and it causes bad decisions.

I would have lawyer draw up a letter for you to sign that asks for the following:

The destruction of all records pertaining to this test by anyone who holds them. Make sure that each party that has access to the information gives you their written guarantee of the destruction of these records.

That all future procedures of this type be OPT IN. In other words if the teacher/admin staff does not have written approval in their hand then the procedure DOES NOT happen. This will probably need school board action and should be reflected in the minutes of the meeting.

A written apology from the school system that clearly acknowledges that they were at fault.

An apology in person from the teacher that called your daughter a liar in front of the same people that heard her say it. If you no longer respect/trust the teacher ask that your daughter be moved to another class.

As I said have an attorney write up the letter. Do not have it on official letterhead from the attorney. If they know you have an attorney involved they will hide behind their own. But by consulting an attorney you will get a letter that covers your rights.

When you meet with anyone from the school be calm and the louder they get the quieter and calmer you should get. Don't give them any chance to portray you as out of control.

In the future make copies of all permission slips that the school sends home. Make sure your daughter has a copy with her so that there is no "confusion" about your wishes.

Edit - ask that they let you know specifically who will be examining your daughter when these procedures happen. I refused to let them do scoliosis screenings on my kids because the doc involved had tried to choke his receptionist because she threatened to tell his wife they were sleeping together. Not the kind of person I wanted having anything to do with my kids. They usually require that all volunteers at a school nowadays get a background check - did they do this for the people performing the screening?

Agreed on staying calm and the action items though I would likely leave the lawyer out during initial contact. Be sure you know what you want out of the contacts (likely the apology, data destruction, etc...) so you don't seem like you're simply complaining.

Would instructing your child to request to go to the office, while her parents were being contacted, be a way to address this going forward?

This is too much pressure for a child. Making them stand out in the class is often times a hindrance to their social interactions. No kid wants to be the oddball who has crazy overprotective parents. But I would certainly give a copy of any permission slips for future reference.

Carrying your hatred to its logical extreme, you wouldn't want your child questioned at all. No written exams. No oral quizzes.

In a perfect world with excellent parents and all children above average....like lake Wobegon....I presume they still administer hearing and vision tests. Garrison Keillor wears glasses.

Hearing and vision have a direct impact on a child's ability to learn. If you deny the school the ability to test for these things, I sure hope you are a perfect parent and have taken your child for testing with professionals that you approve of.

And yes, I read that the family doctor has already performed these tests in this specific instance. Great. I haven't seen a doctor with audiology equipment or phoropters, but I assume some might have access to them.

Schools have no business testing for medical conditions, they are not medical providers. They can suggest that a child should be tested to a parent, but that's where it should end. At most the school could partner with a vision or hearing provider and give out a screening voucher.

While in my mind this would be annoying at the end of the day probably not the biggest deal in the world. The issue is the sloppy procedures that did not prevent this from happening. A firm but calm conversation is needed that concludes with some action items that the school administration will follow up on. The real concern is preventing something like this from happening again in the future.

As you go trough this staying calm when surrounded by incompetency and denial will be challenging. Just remember however you act will ultimately impact your daughter long term at the school. She is the one that has to deal with these morons daily. Don't be the crazy parent but do be the firm parent.

This is so true. You'll want to see how to best use this experience to teach your daughter. Ask her what she's learned and feels from the experience (Being called a liar when you in fact are not) and then help her to deal with a very real life situation that will likely come up again in the future.

 

[HoughMade]

Further reading...and this is not legal advise to anyone in any way, shape or form.

A private school does not have to be accredited, but if it is accredited by the state, it must comply with state "health and safety" regulation including the "audiometry testing" as identified above.

As to the right to refuse the audiometry testing, the school can adopt policies regarding refusal, or consent, put another way. There is a statute defining a religious exemption, but there are no other required exemptions to the audiometry testing that I have seen.

That being said, if a school decides to allow parents to opt their child out, obviously they should honor their own policy. I see no state law requiring permission to do this testing and I do not believe there is a substantive or procedural "due process" right to require specific consent in order to do the testing....but obviously, that could be litigated as I do not know of a case on point. Noninvasive testing is not held to the same standards as medical treatment or any invasive procedure.

If this were legal advice, which is is not, I'd ask where to send the bill....no, actually, I would have charged a retainer up front, then deducted my fee from that and return the unused retainer to you.

 

[HoughMade]

We already knew this... what’s the point? They’re allowed to administer hearing test, nothing new. They handed out permission slips to do so, was declined permission by the parent, and did it anyway. That’s the problem.

Yes, but it does not seem like as big a problem as what many want to make it out to be.

And not "allowed"- required.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Yes, but it does not seem like as big a problem as what many want to make it out to be.

And not "allowed"- required.

Agree, but what if this weren’t a simple hearing test? What if this were vaccinations like we saw earlier this year? Declined permission is declined permission, no matter how small the issue is perceived to be by some.

 

[Alpo]

We already knew this... what’s the point? They’re allowed to administer hearing test, nothing new. They handed out permission slips to do so, was declined permission by the parent, and did it anyway. That’s the problem.

Who is "we" you and that mouse in your pocket?

 

[actaeon277]

Is something like this covered by HIPPA?
If it does, does that mean that the Indiana Code is contrary to HIPPA?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Who is "we" you and that mouse in your pocket?

Me and everybody here, you must be the only one that didn’t. I’m still waiting on an answer in another thread from last week. We can stop de railing this one now