How to stop mass shootings. Master's Degree Capstone

[luger fan]

Hello, I am currently writing my capstone for my Masters Degree in Criminal Law. My topic is How to stop mass shootings in the U.S. (not the exact title). I am asking for serious educated input on how we, as legal gun owners can attempt to put a stop to the mass shootings, especially in schools. What are your opinions on Arming Teachers, retired police or veterans, mental illness and so on. Do you think that people really need an AR-15 or other "assault type rifle" (I have several myself). I would like unbiased opinions from real gun owners, not just CNN and anti-gunners.

I may use your quote, but obviously not your name or handle.

Thank you for your time.

The Bill Of Rights doesn't mention the words "REALLY NEED." I do not even own anything that holds more than 10 rounds BUT am a NRA and GOA supporter. I will also stand shoulder to shoulder with those who do choose to own high cap weapons.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's interesting that you used the exact date I was thinking 1990. In 1990 the term "Helicopter Parent," was coined. A helicopter parent being that "soft hand" parent that obsesses over their children to (IMO) an unhealthy extreme. This gave rise to the everybody is winner philosophy, 10th place trophies, and it always being "the other kid's" fault. The unparalleled notion is the relative wealth Americans enjoyed compared to other nations, which allowed people to dote over little Johnny/Jane.

The actionable part? That's open to debate, but the first place I'd start is with discipline. For people of a certain age, soap in the mouth, castor oil, school paddlings, picking your own switch, and being lifted up by one arm in the grocery store as your dad beat your *** were real things.

I never knew castor oil was used for discipline but I know what Zest soap tastes like, what happens when you don't pick a good enough switch, and the humiliation of having your hind end warmed up in public.

 

[Turf Doctor]

Hello, I am currently writing my capstone for my Masters Degree in Criminal Law. My topic is How to stop mass shootings in the U.S. (not the exact title). I am asking for serious educated input on how we, as legal gun owners can attempt to put a stop to the mass shootings, especially in schools. What are your opinions on Arming Teachers, retired police or veterans, mental illness and so on. Do you think that people really need an AR-15 or other "assault type rifle" (I have several myself). I would like unbiased opinions from real gun owners, not just CNN and anti-gunners.

I may use your quote, but obviously not your name or handle.

Thank you for your time.

No need to repeat what others have said which is some great information.

One of the first things I would do is Stop calling atrocities mass shootings and call them what they really are. MASS MURDERS or MASACRE
A mass shooting can be at a training class, shooting range where more than one person is shooting, which can be called a mass shooting and nobody is being shot.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I never knew castor oil was used for discipline but I know what Zest soap tastes like, what happens when you don't pick a good enough switch, and the humiliation of having your hind end warmed up in public.

On my life, growing up, I thought it's only use was to punish children.

 

[LarryC]

A few thoughts:

First: Look at the world view, terrible massacres have taken place in England, France and other countries with very strict firearm laws. It doesn't take a firearm to commit mass murder, but many still occur in these countries because only the law abiding care about laws.

Second: FACT: there are millions of firearms in the USA, it would be impossible for any law or action to restrict firearms to have any significant effect on a madman obtaining a firearm.

Third: The last mass school shooting was committed by a person that had been visited by a police officer many times, and reported to the FBI on at least two occasions, the FBI ignored the warnings. So identifying persons with mental issues has no effect unless effective action is taken.

Forth: In my opinion there is no absolute way to eliminate mass killings! Vehicles, stolen or otherwise controlled by a manic can cause as many or more deaths and injuries than any firearm. Home made explosives, gasoline, propane, fertilizer, and many other improvised devices have been used in mass murders before, with devastating results.

Fifth: Unfortunately there are some mentally ill (apparently sociopaths) that do not exhibit actions or mannerisms that indicate they are likely to commit mass murder (like the person in Las Vegas), Regardless of any laws, lack of firearms or limitations of legal access to explosives etc., there is NO way to prevent such madmen from devising some method of mass killing. As the killer in France used a truck to kill 86 people and the injury of 458 others prove.

Sixth: Is it acceptable helX no, but until a magic method is devised to detect individuals or groups that desire to harm innocent people it will continue to happen.

Seventh: The only appropriate actions is to limit the amount of devastation a person or group can do is to

(1) Provide effective methods to stop an individual from continuing carnage, this means possible arming teachers, or providing armed guards with firearm to stop the person immediately.

(2) Limit access to schools, provide bullet resistant doors and locks to prevent a shooter from moving into inhabited rooms / areas.

(3) Provide effect blockades to prevent traffic entering areas where mass individuals gather.

(4) Insure the FBI and police do their job when warned or when they suspect a person is a danger to society.

(5) Change the laws to allow confinement for mentally ill persons until a complete evaluation is conducted insure the person is not a danger to society. This is a tough assignment as lengths must be taken to insure innocent people are not incarcerated due to government abuse of the law!

(6) Eliminate the penalties for minor infractions of the drug laws and drastically increase the incarceration time for violent crime. Today it seems individuals are sent to prison for longer terms for minor drug infractions then for armed robbery! While I do not use illegal drugs, it is common knowledge many do. Making marijuana illegal is shown to work as well as Prohibition did, which means it is totally ineffective, increases law breaking, makes drug cartels rich etc. This would free up many spaces in prisons for violent offenders.

Conclusion: None of the Gun Control "proposed" methods for reducing mass murders (schools or otherwise) makes any sense! All the proposals seem to deny the fact criminals do not abide by the law! The only effect any of the laws will have is on the honest people. Criminals do have illegal access to just about any firearm, explosive etc. they desire. I am 76 years old and in my younger days did frequent bars. I have seen firearm sold and / or traded in those bars, probably by persons that were not legal to own a gun. However today I am sure this practice still happens. Criminals have their own "black market" of firearms, many stolen or purchased from other criminals. NO criminal really has any problem obtaining a firearm, and no "law" will have any effect!

 

[dbarton291]

Regarding school shootings specifically: We live in a different world than I grew up in. We had gun racks and rifles in our pickup trucks. It never crossed our minds to shoot up the school. The way some people think today, that is an option in their minds. Their chosen way to deliver that violence could be a rifle, shotgun, handgun, bomb, knife, etc. The only way to protect our schools is to invest in the security systems and/or personnel necessary to deal with this reality.

Nobody has died in a school fire in a long time. That's because we did what we needed to do in the schools to deal with the threat of fire. We didn't pass laws banning matches or fire for law abiding citizens.

As for gun control, why don't we start with enforcing the gun laws we already have. Lord knows we have enough of those already. If somebody reports a threat to a school, law enforcement needs to act appropriately on it.

 

[vronus]

You should look at the high school in Shelbyville, IN. I think it is south west. It was on the news. They have Cams every where connected to County Sheriff. Door locking sytems, smoke in the halls and Bullet proof Doors on the Class rooms

 

[Trigger Time]

I never knew castor oil was used for discipline but I know what Zest soap tastes like, what happens when you don't pick a good enough switch, and the humiliation of having your hind end warmed up in public.

It wasn't bad till the bite kicked in lol. Zest I mean

 

[vronus]

It is Southwestern

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/22/safest-school-america-indiana/362210002/


https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/02/21/safest-school-america-indiana/357379002/

 

[LARRY1]

if you want to check out fox news Andrew Napalitano a retired New jersey supreme court judge recently said when asked about gun control he thinks the people should have the same weapons as the military as we did at the founding of this country. that's why we one because we had better weapons than England.

 

[ToddR]

There are long-standing tactics for defending against an attacking force. In technical terms, school shootings are considered "surprise attacks" because of the stationary nature of a school. Compare this to Las Vegas, which would be classified as an ambush attack as the attacker had to wait until the attackees were assembled. In your investigations, I recommend looking into surprise attack defenses. The are finite options. They include 1) barriers and fortifications, 2) the ability to launch a counter-attack, and 3) pre-identifying and disabling would-be attackers. When combined, the strategy is to make the target extremely difficult to attack, thereby having a deterring effect. Thus, the would-be attacker simply loses interest/willingness to launch an attack.

Much of what is being debated centers on #2 and #3. The idea of combining educators and counter-attackers into one person(s) is unsettling to some. So, the idea of it is discarded at the peril of would-be victims. The idea of disabling would-be attackers is unsettling as it has the potential to restrict or deprive rights without sufficient justification.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

if you want to check out fox news Andrew Napalitano a retired New jersey supreme court judge recently said when asked about gun control he thinks the people should have the same weapons as the military as we did at the founding of this country. that's why we one because we had better weapons than England.

I disagree. Now wait a minute, let me explain. I once heard it argued that many of the colonists had better rifles than the king's army had. So, it could be argued the founders would have supported the citizens should have better stuff than our government has (assuming they wouldn't have stroked out when they found we had such a large standing military industrial complex).

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Hey, I noticed we had a spate of long time members getting involved today. Keep it up, folks.

 

[PaulF]

Excellent posts here. It has taken me a while to catch up.

In 1979 a 16 year-old girl killed two people and wounded eight children in what would set the archetype for American (mass) school shootings. When asked why the girl, who I refuse to name, replied " I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day".

1979.

I agree that Helicopter Parenting has placed giant obstacles in the path of a whole generation of young people, but this problem has long roots. The Columbine Massacre took place something like 19 years ago. I can recite (and probably correctly spell) the full names of both of the animals that committed that crime, but I cannot tell you the name of a single victim. I think that is a big part of the problem.

I think people, myself included, have a tendency to consume media less critically than is actually warranted. In modern media abhorrent behavior is so often normalized, glorified even. The "bad" guys take on hero status among a growing portion of our society. Some of these people latch on to fictional characters and devices and attempt to incorporate them into their own real-world persona. Rational, grounded people know that John Wick is ridiculous on every level, but there are those among us for whom these characters are as real as you or me, and their methods worthy of study.

These people have always been among us. It was asked upthread "what happened". I think it was the Internet. The Internet happened.

There is video of the Columbine Rampage. It's on the Internet. The killers have a fanbase. They have their own narrative surrounding the massacre, and they attract a surprisingly large following...on the Internet. People know they are able to create an enduring legacy for themselves if they can behave atrociously enough toward others, and they exploit it. These people are out there, and in their echo chambers they become emboldened in their rhetoric..and some in their actions.

So, we know there are a non-zero number of people who think that killing children at school is an acceptable expression of their inner demons. How do we stop it?

I don't have any new ideas, but I think there are some avenues worth exploring. Condemn the public glorification of these criminals. Make it a criminal act to release the name and details of a killer and his methods until after everyone who remembers the event is dead. It's time to address mental illness. These guys don't exist in a vacuum, other people know they need help...but there's no help to be had. Potentially violent and anti-social people need to be identified and funneled toward the mental health system...even if they cannot pay for the services themselves. Secure the schools. I don't think the police are the answer, at least not in full. What if we could create a program that allowed schools to organize a group of parents who could receive specialized training, permission, and certain limitations to liability for use of deadly force to help secure the schoolhouse and campus? They're our kids...why shouldn't we be the ones to protect them?

 

[Speedy121]

My 2cents,
Arming a volunteer percentage of ccwTeachers, Admin staff ccw and secured stowed long guns (they have closets,cabinets,and big desks), plus Janitorial staff ccw.
People tend to ignore the cleaning staff who can be anywhere in min.
Never say who is carrying and the deterrence is in place.
Also, All levels of students should be shown Firearm Safety instruction and what to do if a firearm is found.
Too err is to be Human, and All Firearms are loaded.

 

[Hoosierkav]

There are long-standing tactics for defending against an attacking force. In technical terms, school shootings are considered "surprise attacks" because of the stationary nature of a school. Compare this to Las Vegas, which would be classified as an ambush attack as the attacker had to wait until the attackees were assembled. In your investigations, I recommend looking into surprise attack defenses. The are finite options. They include 1) barriers and fortifications, 2) the ability to launch a counter-attack, and 3) pre-identifying and disabling would-be attackers. When combined, the strategy is to make the target extremely difficult to attack, thereby having a deterring effect. Thus, the would-be attacker simply loses interest/willingness to launch an attack.

Much of what is being debated centers on #2 and #3. The idea of combining educators and counter-attackers into one person(s) is unsettling to some. So, the idea of it is discarded at the peril of would-be victims. The idea of disabling would-be attackers is unsettling as it has the potential to restrict or deprive rights without sufficient justification.

One additional thought to this--if the students know "the routine" of what the plan entails, vulnerabilities are more easily identified. Since the majority of these attacks have come from within, it gives the aggressor the advantage--he knows the routes, choke points, congregation areas... rally point A becomes a sweet target.