How would you like to be treated by law-enforcement?

[EPD1102]

Anyone else find it interesting EPD1102 started the thread 3days ago and NOT comminted sence??
intrapment?
court case coming up soon???

I have commented by updating my original post. I haven't commented with additional posts because I'm asking for others' opinions and not giving my opinions. I am not involved in any legal cases and I'm not looking at getting into a bunch of petty arguing. I am just trying to make things better at the agencies that I train with. Thanks for your lack of trust though
Also, it was deer season so I've been hunting.

 

[Jack Burton]

Sure looked to me like you were trying to minimize Frank's opinion by claiming that his belief that servant = menial was historically inaccurate/incomplete. Whether or not I meet the threshold for competency for this opinion to matter is up for debate.

Wasn't trying to minimize it... I was trying to correct it. The concept of "servant" encompasses much more than only being a menial... or servile. As the dictionary that Eye quoted had in it... there also the equally valid and important meaning of being a retainer or steward -- both of which are highly responsible ans sought after positions in society.

Those who hear "servant" and only think of menial in terms of their job are doing themselves and society a disservice. No one expects a cop to serve coffee... but we do expect him to act as a faithful steward of/with the power the people have invested in him.

Yet, far too many people immediately focus on "serving coffee with a menial, servile attitude" when they hear the words servant or service. That speaks much more about their mindset than it does about the word and concept of servanthood.

Lets look at it this way with another subject...

Susie: Oh, look, a cow way over there. Must be a Holstein.

Fred: Well, it might be a Holstien, but it also could be a Jersey, Angus, Hereford, Brahman, Ayrshire or any of a dozen other breeds. It's too far away to see and rightfully judge under the circumstances.

Susie: No, it has to be a Holstein. My dictionary tells me that a Holstein is a cow, and that is definitely a cow.

Fred: Well, it is a cow, that is for sure. But the dictionary also says that other types of cows exist also other than a Holstein. Maybe it's one of them instead.

Susie: Can't you understand? The DICTIONARY says that a Holstein is a cow. THAT is a cow. Therefore... it MUST be a HOLSTEIN. I am not confused.

Fred: But what about all those other cows? Since it is too far away to be sure, can't we say that it just might be one of several types of cows the dictionary talks about?

Susie: Ok Fred, I am too ignorant to understand when the true intellectuals speak. I don't see your point at all, Are you saying that a cow is a Holstein or are you denying it? I said before that I am not confused, Merriam Webster Dictionary is confused.

Now, is Fred trying to "minimize" Susie's opinion... or is he trying to perhaps broaden her horizons to accept that while all Holsteins may indeed be cows, not all cows are Holsteins?

Frank, and some others, reflexively think like Susie -- all servants are servile and menial. Since the concept of "public servant" is vital to our country, and the powers given to cops (and others) as public servants is vast, should that thinking be encouraged or discouraged? Should it be given a pass, or should it be corrected?

Or should cops (and others) be told that they are keepers of great responsibility as retainers and stewards... able to speak with great power that is on loan from the master (the public) but ultimately having only the power and authority that the public gives them.

I don't blame Frank for rejecting the servile, menial role of a servant...but because it is the only role he knows for the word, he then rejects the very concept of his relationship to the public -- no matter how much it really gives him the foundation for his authority and power.

BTW.... this is all fundamentally similar to what I posted in the past on this very thread. Some posters want to focus exclusively on the all cows are Holsteins meme, and refuse to even consider otherwise. This is what is causing the bulk of the acrimony.

I am always up for a rousing defense of my statements... but when people such as Susie (and others) join in it makes it a fruitless cause.

 

[Birds Away]

There are a few someones just begging for a little LEO cuddle time. Go ahead, admit it.

 

[thompal]

Now, is Fred trying to "minimize" Susie's opinion... or is he trying to perhaps broaden her horizons to accept that while all Holsteins may indeed be cows, not all cows are Holsteins?

But, herein lies one problem with your argument. Not all Holsteins ARE COWS. Holsteins can be GRILLS, as evidenced by:

Outdoor Stainless Steel Barbeque Grills, BBQ Gas Grills & Commercial Cookers

Other Holsteins may be BULLS.

And still other Holsteins may be HEIFERS.

I think we can, however agree that SOME Holsteins are cows.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Wasn't trying to minimize it... I was trying to correct it. The concept of "servant" encompasses much more than only being a menial... or servile. As the dictionary that Eye quoted had in it... there also the equally valid and important meaning of being a retainer or steward -- both of which are highly responsible ans sought after positions in society.

Those who hear "servant" and only think of menial in terms of their job are doing themselves and society a disservice. No one expects a cop to serve coffee... but we do expect him to act as a faithful steward of/with the power the people have invested in him.

Yet, far too many people immediately focus on "serving coffee with a menial, servile attitude" when they hear the words servant or service. That speaks much more about their mindset than it does about the word and concept of servanthood.

Lets look at it this way with another subject...

Susie: Oh, look, a cow way over there. Must be a Holstein.

Fred: Well, it might be a Holstien, but it also could be a Jersey, Angus, Hereford, Brahman, Ayrshire or any of a dozen other breeds. It's too far away to see and rightfully judge under the circumstances.

Susie: No, it has to be a Holstein. My dictionary tells me that a Holstein is a cow, and that is definitely a cow.

Fred: Well, it is a cow, that is for sure. But the dictionary also says that other types of cows exist also other than a Holstein. Maybe it's one of them instead.

Susie: Can't you understand? The DICTIONARY says that a Holstein is a cow. THAT is a cow. Therefore... it MUST be a HOLSTEIN. I am not confused.

Fred: But what about all those other cows? Since it is too far away to be sure, can't we say that it just might be one of several types of cows the dictionary talks about?

Susie: Ok Fred, I am too ignorant to understand when the true intellectuals speak. I don't see your point at all, Are you saying that a cow is a Holstein or are you denying it? I said before that I am not confused, Merriam Webster Dictionary is confused.

Now, is Fred trying to "minimize" Susie's opinion... or is he trying to perhaps broaden her horizons to accept that while all Holsteins may indeed be cows, not all cows are Holsteins?

Frank, and some others, reflexively think like Susie -- all servants are servile and menial. Since the concept of "public servant" is vital to our country, and the powers given to cops (and others) as public servants is vast, should that thinking be encouraged or discouraged? Should it be given a pass, or should it be corrected?

Or should cops (and others) be told that they are keepers of great responsibility as retainers and stewards... able to speak with great power that is on loan from the master (the public) but ultimately having only the power and authority that the public gives them.

I don't blame Frank for rejecting the servile, menial role of a servant...but because it is the only role he knows for the word, he then rejects the very concept of his relationship to the public -- no matter how much it really gives him the foundation for his authority and power.

BTW.... this is all fundamentally similar to what I posted in the past on this very thread. Some posters want to focus exclusively on the all cows are Holsteins meme, and refuse to even consider otherwise. This is what is causing the bulk of the acrimony.

I am always up for a rousing defense of my statements... but when people such as Susie (and others) join in it makes it a fruitless cause.

Now that's a clear and respectable clarification of your position........ There could of been less background noise if you had enough respect for me to respond like this, rather than an intolerant dismissal as if I am beneath you. Contempt doesn't speak for your intellect like a well thought out response does. I am 90% on board with what you are saying here. The 10% pathetic rebuke of "others" is still bruised ego and detracts from what would otherwise be a pretty respectable thinking process.

 

[Jack Burton]

Not all Holsteins ARE COWS. Holsteins can be GRILLS

If you find me a girl that confuses a cow with a grill then we can discuss it further.

cow = generic animal with four legs that goes "mooo" for the purpose of the illustration. There's already enough BS on this topic that we don't have to add to it with meaningless cow distinctions that will cause some Susie-type people to go "see, see, he's WRONG"

 

[Jack Burton]

Now that's a clear and respectable clarification of your position........ There could of been less background noise if you had enough respect for me to respond like this, rather than an intolerant dismissal as if I am beneath you. Contempt doesn't speak for your intellect like a well thought out response does. I am 90% on board with what you are saying here. The 10% pathetic rebuke of "others" is still bruised ego and detracts from what would otherwise be a pretty respectable thinking process.

As noted in the post, it is fundamentally no different than what was posted earlier.

Ok Jack, I am too ignorant to understand when the true intellectuals speak. I don't see your point at all,

 

[thompal]

If you find me a girl that confuses a cow with a grill then we can discuss it further.

cow = generic animal with four legs that goes "mooo" for the purpose of the illustration. There's already enough BS on this topic that we don't have to add to it with meaningless cow distinctions that will cause some Susie-type people to go "see, see, he's WRONG"

But, is blurring the distinction between a "cow" and a "bull" or "heifer" any less important than blurring the distinction between "cow" and, for example, a "pig?" Or that of "menial" and a "steward?"

 

[Birds Away]

Tell me more about Susie. Is she single? Got any pictures?

 

[thompal]

Tell me more about Susie. Is she single? Got any pictures?

She HAS to be single. She doesn't even know the difference between a cow and a bull.

 

[Birds Away]

She HAS to be single. She doesn't even know the difference between a cow and a bull.

We could work on that.

 

[Dead Duck]

I think you guys are trying to describe my X-wife. And your doing a pretty good job of it, too. It's a Heavy topic in my family.

 

[Birds Away]

I think you guys are trying to describe my X-wife. And your doing a pretty good job of it, too. It's a Heavy topic in my family.

So you were married to Susie and she still doesn't know the difference? Hmmm.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Probably never heard of this guy either...

Whoa there bud. Keep Stan Lee out of this!

 

[Dead Duck]

So you were married to Susie and she still doesn't know the difference? Hmmm.

No...All that talk about Cows, Holsteins and HEIFERS. You guys totally nailed her.
No really, please Nail her.

 

[Birds Away]

No...All that talk about Cows, Holsteins and HEIFERS. You guys totally nailed her.
No really, please Nail her.

Err, um, no thanks.

 

[Jack Burton]

But, is blurring the distinction between a "cow" and a "bull" or "heifer" any less important than blurring the distinction between "cow" and, for example, a "pig?" Or that of "menial" and a "steward?"

Yes. One is an extremely simplified, dumbed down example for illustrative purposes, the other is reality. There is no need to go into the genus species and/or gender for virtually everyone to understand the purpose of the example.

For instance, did you get confused over a cow and a grill in the example or were you well aware of the point being noted and explained?

If you feel that someone would be confused because bulls are sometimes called cows, then that shows my original point that with that person it just wouldn't be worthwhile discussing concepts above the five year old level ( most of whom already know about cows).

 

[Jack Burton]

Tell me more about Susie. Is she single? Got any pictures?

I was with Susie once on another drive out in the country... the conversation went like this...

Susie: Oh look... a bunch of cows..
Me. No, herd of cows
Susie: Of course I've heard of cows... do you think I'm dumb or something...
Me: No, no, a cow herd.
Susie: What do I care if a cow heard... I never said nothing bad about them.

 

[7urtle]

AGain... it's simply not worthwhile for someone such as you. All the posts are already up for anyone to read at their leisure.



Best you can do, eh.

Probably never heard of this guy either...

who is your avatar

 

[Bunnykid68]

No...All that talk about Cows, Holsteins and HEIFERS. You guys totally nailed her.
No really, please Nail her.

Maybe to the wall with a roofing nail gun