I am a fool for Winchester Model 12's

[Mongo59]

My Model 12 I bought off Gunbroker got in today. I officially have a new favorite shotgun.

This one has probably been fired more than all the rest of my 12's put together. I have been inside countless 12's and this one has a hammer that does not look original to the gun and it has been fired to where it has a GOOD sized dimple where it hits the firing pin. (Not that all that shooting hurts these old work horses.) It looked like they were using burnt powder as a lubricant. There was no air space, powder filled the voids.

It is a tight gun that has had some professional mods added. It has about the prettiest furniture I have ever seen on a Winchester, I am not sure if it was added or original to the gun. It is too busy drying to bother right now but I will post some pics of the finished product later. This one will be my last low bid gun off Gunbroker, too many add ons. It is getting to where the actual cost of the gun makes up only 80% of the final cost. Too bad because I really got some nice irons with the lowest possible bid and some with the 'make an offer'...

 

[KellyinAvon]

My Model 12 I bought off Gunbroker got in today. I officially have a new favorite shotgun.

This one has probably been fired more than all the rest of my 12's put together. I have been inside countless 12's and this one has a hammer that does not look original to the gun and it has been fired to where it has a GOOD sized dimple where it hits the firing pin. (Not that all that shooting hurts these old work horses.) It looked like they were using burnt powder as a lubricant. There was no air space, powder filled the voids.

It is a tight gun that has had some professional mods added. It has about the prettiest furniture I have ever seen on a Winchester, I am not sure if it was added or original to the gun. It is too busy drying to bother right now but I will post some pics of the finished product later. This one will be my last low bid gun off Gunbroker, too many add ons. It is getting to where the actual cost of the gun makes up only 80% of the final cost. Too bad because I really got some nice irons with the lowest possible bid and some with the 'make an offer'...

Would this be a bad time to mention a Model 12 will be coming my way this weekend. Trap Grade 12 gauge, 1963, never fired.

 

[Magyars]

I picked up a model 1200 not to long ago..... what's the difference between the two?
I know the 12 was discontinued in 63 and the 1200 came out the same or following year.

 

[Mongo59]

The 1200 is a total redesign of the 12 when Olin took over Winchester. They were going for profit and the 12 had become too expensive to build for what the market would allow as profit margin.

The 1200 has a totally different bolt that locks much like a rifle with rotating locking lugs while the 12 used the JM Browning 'lock in the top of the receiver' approach.

Your 1200 (specifically) has an alloy receiver which would not last if they had used the JM Browning bolt so the rotating lugs would be necessary. So in a way your 1200 opened the door to the much lighter modern shotguns.

Conversely, the military never adopted an alloy framed gun do to the possible use of a bayonet. Yours is marked 'US' and was bought by the military but only issued to reserve units and law enforcement. (Yours came from the Floyd County Sherriff's Department.)

My grandson absolutely loves his Columbian Mauser by the way.

 

[Mongo59]

Would this be a bad time to mention a Model 12 will be coming my way this weekend. Trap Grade 12 gauge, 1963, never fired.

Did you buy or inherit? I can't wait to see the furniture on yours, we'll need pics!

My brother-in-law has a complete set of unfired, in the box Model 12's he says he is leaving me. One of every gauge including the 42...

 

[KellyinAvon]

Did you buy or inherit? I can't wait to see the furniture on yours, we'll need pics!

My brother-in-law has a complete set of unfired, in the box Model 12's he says he is leaving me. One of every gauge including the 42...

The other day Dad asked me if I had room in my safe for a couple of his guns so I guess inheriting is the right word.

IIRC back in the day (pre-KiA) Dad was shooting trap regularly. He had a Browning A5 but wasn't happy with how he was shooting with it (Dad is a southpaw, not sure if that played in.) He trades the A5 in on the 63 Model 12. In between negotiating on the trade he started using his 870 (55 or 56, corncob slide) for trap and kept shooting with it. He was happy with the 870 for trap so the Model 12 stayed new.

10 years and our move to Indiana later (had been all over Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, etc when the interstates were being built) the Model 12 was a safe queen and stayed that way.

The other two are the 1898 Springfield (sporterized carbine originally a rifle in 1901, there's another story here) and his 6mm Remington which is a SWEET shooter, Leopold Duplex scope, can't find ammo for it accept at his house. One full green and white box of 100 gr Core-Lokt, a few more partials. One box has a 3-D (pre-WalMart Paoli??) price tag for $8.47.

 

[Leo]

The trap shooting community has some die hard fans of the model 12. There are still some High end "build ups" being used. They have custom Monte Carlo or rollover carved stocks and raised, taper ribs to give a high hitting pattern percentage. When I started shooting trap leagues in the 70's there were quite a few. The guns did not die off, the owners did. Great old guns.

 

[Mongo59]

The other day Dad asked me if I had room in my safe for a couple of his guns so I guess inheriting is the right word.

IIRC back in the day (pre-KiA) Dad was shooting trap regularly. He had a Browning A5 but wasn't happy with how he was shooting with it (Dad is a southpaw, not sure if that played in.) He trades the A5 in on the 63 Model 12. In between negotiating on the trade he started using his 870 (55 or 56, corncob slide) for trap and kept shooting with it. He was happy with the 870 for trap so the Model 12 stayed new.

10 years and our move to Indiana later (had been all over Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, etc when the interstates were being built) the Model 12 was a safe queen and stayed that way.

The other two are the 1898 Springfield (sporterized carbine originally a rifle in 1901, there's another story here) and his 6mm Remington which is a SWEET shooter, Leopold Duplex scope, can't find ammo for it accept at his house. One full green and white box of 100 gr Core-Lokt, a few more partials. One box has a 3-D (pre-WalMart Paoli??) price tag for $8.47.

Mine is anything but unfired. Getting the wood done as we speak, the metal is already finished.

It has a Cutts with a spreader so she should bust clays as well as she busts ears...

 

[Mongo59]

This is how the metal turned out. The wood is in process...

 

[Mongo59]

The wood isn't finished yet but I think you can get the idea...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You just can't beat the look of good wood furniture. Very nice!

 

[BigRed]

My Model 12 I bought off Gunbroker got in today. I officially have a new favorite shotgun.

This one has probably been fired more than all the rest of my 12's put together. I have been inside countless 12's and this one has a hammer that does not look original to the gun and it has been fired to where it has a GOOD sized dimple where it hits the firing pin. (Not that all that shooting hurts these old work horses.) It looked like they were using burnt powder as a lubricant. There was no air space, powder filled the voids.

It is a tight gun that has had some professional mods added. It has about the prettiest furniture I have ever seen on a Winchester, I am not sure if it was added or original to the gun. It is too busy drying to bother right now but I will post some pics of the finished product later. This one will be my last low bid gun off Gunbroker, too many add ons. It is getting to where the actual cost of the gun makes up only 80% of the final cost. Too bad because I really got some nice irons with the lowest possible bid and some with the 'make an offer'...

LOVE the Model 12.

ETA: John Moses Browning was pure genius when it came to firearms.

 

[Mongo59]

Don't leave TC Johnson out of it...

 

[Leo]

LOVE the Model 12.

ETA: John Moses Browning was pure genius when it came to firearms.

No doubt that JM Browning was one of the best firearm designers. It always appeared to me that the designs were built for the benefit of the mechanism, with little attention to the cost of production due to time need to machine it all. That is as much of a mark of the times as it is to creativity. The best and brightest design engineers today find themselves quickly out of work if they don't please the accountants, the salesmen, and the government bureaucrats first, and hopefully enough is left to have a product that actually works.

I have watched products get rushed to market with some untested weaknesses, have several revisions to correct those weaknesses, and become reliable and long lasting. Then the bean counters hire some other "designers" to make it cheaper to build, by putting the same weak spots back into the design. When the product fails, everyone gets blamed, except the bean counters and the pride less engineers they outsourced. That is the times we live in. I wonder if moderna or J&J has a shot for that.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I have watched products get rushed to market with some untested weaknesses, have several revisions to correct those weaknesses

It's the same in IT. Funny how there's never enough time or money to do it the right way, but there always seems to be enough time and money to go back and fix what should have been caught up front.

 

[OZZY.40]

I have one in 20 gauge. It’s over 100 years old and still shoots great!

 

[Twangbanger]

That looks like a 1200? Not an expert...

 

[sportsman223]

Seven Sections American Nostalgia
Devon Harris has forgot more about M-12's than most anyone he deals with parts, and wood
He was a Rep for Federal Ammunition from Logansport

 

[Mongo59]

I have one in 20 gauge. It’s over 100 years old and still shoots great! View attachment 161348

Who told you this was a 100 year old gun?

 

[OZZY.40]

Who told you this was a 100 year old gun?

I looked up the serial number