I think it’s time to build a Kenosha upper

[Ingomike]

A "Kenosha Upper"?



No wonder we get a bad name in the press.

Seems fairly succinct to me. Since most altercations take place at short range, as in Kenosha, most here understand what the intent of the OP was. It really doesn't matter to the leftist gun grabbers, they will apply malicious intent to anything posed anyway...

 

[churchmouse]

Not sure what you guys are looking for but we have 3 of these configured near identical situated for home defense. Especially since the douche wads were 1 block from my home not long ago. Works for us.
I just reconfigured this one from a side charger.

 

[Ingomike]

Not sure what you guys are looking for but we have 3 of these configured near identical situated for home defense. Especially since the douche wads were 1 block from my home not long ago. Works for us.
I just reconfigured this one from a side charger.

I so envious of the awesome work you do. Very practical tool to have in the box...

 

[churchmouse]

I so envious of the awesome work you do. Very practical tool to have in the box...

Thanks. Very much.
We went to great lengths to set up these and the other ARs to operate with as close to identical as possible. No thought involved past muscle memory.
Make-em as close to the same as you can. No guess work if things get stupid.

 

[thompal]

Seems fairly succinct to me. Since most altercations take place at short range, as in Kenosha, most here understand what the intent of the OP was. It really doesn't matter to the leftist gun grabbers, they will apply malicious intent to anything posed anyway...

The fact that we would even consider defending ourselves against the rioters is all they need to loose their minds.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Not sure what you guys are looking for but we have 3 of these configured near identical situated for home defense. Especially since the douche wads were 1 block from my home not long ago. Works for us.
I just reconfigured this one from a side charger.

Sharp gun.
Do you run slings on these?
Also, is that a laser mounted in front of the eotech?

 

[churchmouse]

Sharp gun.
Do you run slings on these?
Also, is that a laser mounted in front of the eotech?

No and yes.
I have a sling for one of the 16" rifles but it is not on it.

That is a sitemark laser. Green. Just because.

All of the HD guns are Eotech.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I keep going back and forth about putting a laser on my ar. I can see where it would be valuable in weird shooting positions, but like the gun being as light as possible.

The only laser I have tried is one of the dbal models and it was a big brick. Maybe a smaller one like the one on yours would make more sense.

I am a big fan of slings on long guns. The Kenosha Kid video makes me more of a fan.

 

[mike4]

A long term KISS lightweight SBR upper want of a Colt 6933 was subverted when Colt started using 0.750 front sight bases with an obnoxious step machined just in front of the sight. Not willing to track down an uncertain history used upper and pay the asking prices for them. By the time I looped back around to researching 11.5" barrels I ended up with a complete BCM upper, and braces had evolved to where I built an SBA3 pistol lower for it. My objectives and use case also had morphed into the same application you are considering, even before the world went further off course. I think that barrel length is about right for the purpose, with the additional inch getting you off the edge of reliability with the AR design that the 10.5" barrels are walking. Some folks really like 12.5" which I encountered during research, where I tend to search several boards to sift out the seemingly more informed opinions (I had run 10.5" but not 11.5 or 12.5"). For shorter ranges in and out of vehicles, indoor close spaces, a longer barrel is doing you no good unless you want to avoid building a pistol and/or hedge your bet on the party ending on braces via some reinterpretation.

I was also sufficiently impressed with the Gen 3 improvements to the Law folder I added one to that build. The whole things runs 100%, and I moved from a 1-4x LPVO to an Aimpoint to be faster closer. The folder is mainly useful for packing in and out of vehicle with a lower profile in a shorter bag. You can leave the stock/brace in the preferred position (1 notch short of fully extended for me) so there is still just a single deployment action, fold open and ready to go. I was mainly thinking going in and out of hotels on road trips, before COVID pretty much closed that down for now. But the Law does add a surprisingly noticeable amount of weight. And weight does affect speed, F=ma. I would skip the Law unless you do need the lower profile transport.

 

[churchmouse]

I keep going back and forth about putting a laser on my ar. I can see where it would be valuable in weird shooting positions, but like the gun being as light as possible.

The only laser I have tried is one of the dbal models and it was a big brick. Maybe a smaller one like the one on yours would make more sense.

I am a big fan of slings on long guns. The Kenosha Kid video makes me more of a fan.

We have a few different slings but only 1 has a dedicated home. Watching that kid haul tail makes one consider a sling but in truth, at my age, running is really not an option. Well.....fire. Fire will make any of us run. But I am a stand my ground kinda guy now. If I ran that far I would not trip and fall I would have to take a knee. So the sling thing was not in my plans on the HD pieces.

The spouse (CKW) likes the lasers. Gives her a comfort level but in truth, inside a house or even a back yard point/shoot with an AR (with enough practice) is a viable thing. And yes we practice this way when we can.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And a laser is not very heavy. Its addition isnt noticeable. I run a green one on my hd gun and I cant tell the difference between on and off.

Granted its a standard profile 16" so YMMV when its stupid lightweight.

 

[1nderbeard]

Not sure what you guys are looking for but we have 3 of these configured near identical situated for home defense. Especially since the douche wads were 1 block from my home not long ago. Works for us.
I just reconfigured this one from a side charger.

Love the grips, especially. I picked a bad time to be in the market for a nice AR for defense purposes.

 

[Hohn]

A long term KISS lightweight SBR upper want of a Colt 6933 was subverted when Colt started using 0.750 front sight bases with an obnoxious step machined just in front of the sight. Not willing to track down an uncertain history used upper and pay the asking prices for them. By the time I looped back around to researching 11.5" barrels I ended up with a complete BCM upper, and braces had evolved to where I built an SBA3 pistol lower for it. My objectives and use case also had morphed into the same application you are considering, even before the world went further off course. I think that barrel length is about right for the purpose, with the additional inch getting you off the edge of reliability with the AR design that the 10.5" barrels are walking. Some folks really like 12.5" which I encountered during research, where I tend to search several boards to sift out the seemingly more informed opinions (I had run 10.5" but not 11.5 or 12.5"). For shorter ranges in and out of vehicles, indoor close spaces, a longer barrel is doing you no good unless you want to avoid building a pistol and/or hedge your bet on the party ending on braces via some reinterpretation.

I was also sufficiently impressed with the Gen 3 improvements to the Law folder I added one to that build. The whole things runs 100%, and I moved from a 1-4x LPVO to an Aimpoint to be faster closer. The folder is mainly useful for packing in and out of vehicle with a lower profile in a shorter bag. You can leave the stock/brace in the preferred position (1 notch short of fully extended for me) so there is still just a single deployment action, fold open and ready to go. I was mainly thinking going in and out of hotels on road trips, before COVID pretty much closed that down for now. But the Law does add a surprisingly noticeable amount of weight. And weight does affect speed, F=ma. I would skip the Law unless you do need the lower profile transport.

I’m not opposed to a pistol in 11.5, I just recognize it won’t run all ammo with ideal terminal performance; it will need specific loads that work well at lower speeds.

The weight loss from 14.5 to 11.5 was less than I expected in the light profiles, so length alone is my view of the primary benefit to 11.5” vs a 14.5 and therefore to pistol vs rifle.

I don’t want to mess with the Law adapter on a braced pistol. Too much proximity to a fluid area of the rules. My transport needs don’t require the folder.

A shorter buffer brace setup like the Maxim seems to be the way to go. Pretty sure that’s what I see on the Mouse’s photo. Even an inch or two off the buffer tube is a big improvement.

Im getting the feeling that running a short barrel is better done in 300bo. I’m loathe to take up another caliber for loading but the low round count might justify it for me.

I expect I’ll end up with a m4gery if sorts with a lighter barrel. Simple, cheap, yet still works.

 

[MCgrease08]

I recently rewatched the whole series. I’m wanting that kind of rifle but wanting to lean more towards rock solid durable vs lightest of the light.

I just got a BCM 14.5" mid weight upper. It's a fluted barrel but not quite as light as the ELW model.

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-sta...ted-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/

New rig is more than 2 lbs. lighter than my old set up. I slapped a red dot on it, added a 1000 lumen light and called it a day.

I also have a pistol build with the BCM standard 11.5" enhanced lightweight upper and it's the bee's knees as a home defense gun. I would not feel one bit shy about using it for a neighborhood patrol option, particularly if you're going to in and around a vehicle.

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-sta...upper-receiver-group-w-bcm-mcmr-10-handguard/

ETA: On the topic of slings, IMHO every defensive long gun needs one. The Rittenhouse encounter has me seriously looking at a 2 point sling with the ability to adjust to single point. The fact that he was running a single point may have been the difference that saved his life when he had his back on the ground.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I just got a BCM 14.5" mid weight upper. It's a fluted barrel but not quite as light as the ELW model.

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-sta...ted-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/

New rig is more than 2 lbs. lighter than my old set up. I slapped a red dot on it, added a 1000 lumen light and called it a day.

I also have a pistol build with the BCM standard 11.5" enhanced lightweight upper and it's the bee's knees as a home defense gun. I would not feel one bit shy about using it for a neighborhood patrol option, particularly if you're going to in and around a vehicle.

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-sta...upper-receiver-group-w-bcm-mcmr-10-handguard/

ETA: On the topic of slings, IMHO every defensive long gun needs one. The Rittenhouse encounter has me seriously looking at a 2 point sling with the ability to adjust to single point. The fact that he was running a single point may have been the difference that saved his life when he had his back on the ground.

I use "original soe gear" convertible 2 point/ single point bungee slings on my defensive long guns for that very reason. I like being able to use the two point sling as a shooting aid and leave them by default as single point slings in case I need the retention or need to do things with my hands and still keep my long gun handy..

 

[Hohn]

I’m running the magpul ms4 with dual QDs. It’s 2/1 convertible. Not as quickly adjusted as a savvy sniper or such, but it’s also not $90.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I was turned onto the Vickers Tactical sling. If I'm not running a GI, its a Vickers. LOVE it.

 

[mike4]

Hohn, while a good 11.5" can be extremely accurate at intermediate ranges, it's really those longer ranges where I start to be concerned that the muzzle velocity was slower at 0 yards, so it has a head start on velocity drop with increasing range. Close in I am not sweating a 3" difference, not enough to go to a less proven and less standardized lower production volume option like 300BO. And although outside the envelope of optimization for this envisioned role, I would not want to break commonality with a whole range of 5.56mm multiple AR supporting items; proven reliable magazines, ammo inventory, backup ammo cans of loaded mags, another loaded with stripper clips, etc. I think a good red dot will give you speed and shot placement which I think dominate in importance.

I've not looked closely at the Maxim brace although I see it's $$$. I have a couple of pistol lowers and might end up swapping this one onto the straight SBA3 lower to drop the Law weight.

Actually looped back to comment on slings relative to subsequent posts (not directed to Hohn). I did not even hit on that, but Blue Force Gear VCAS 2 point with QD swivels is what I have on the 11.5" as well as a primary 14.5" AR (permanent Vortex from years ago on that one). The Kenosha incident was the first time I seriously considered the retention benefit of the sling. The reason you want one all the time, even if you aren't sprinting around, is otherwise it's like carrying a pistol around with no holster, worse really, because there is no hope of fitting it in a pocket or waistband (assuming you have a waistband available if you wake up in the middle of the night).

I recommend the same thing for both cases, barrel length and sling employment. First imagine realistic permutations and combinations of things that might occur when things have already gone south enough to arm yourself with the (short-ish) long gun. Then unload and triple check for a clear chamber and run through many variants of realistic paces through your home, getting in and out of your vehicle, whatever else you envision and see what really works. Consider activities where you need two hands free maybe moving one of the children to safety with the spouse, or need to climb over a fence, or any number of things. All kinds of things happen when things are already happening under pressure and uncertainty. I think you'll find losing that 3" to be a benefit in close places, and gives an opponent less to grab with less leverage. With a sling I think you'll find it's a benefit in so many scenarios if you consider a multiple of realistic options that you don't want to be without; I don't.

 

[Hohn]

All valid points.^^

Length, like weight, is something that’ll be there 100% of the time.

Last time I thought about a shorty, I thought that even a straight buffer tube as pistols used to have would be ok on a single point sling if you used the taut sling for aim stability and had a hand stop.

And Im still firmly in the page that even compromised 5.56 beats 300 for what I want overall.

 

[churchmouse]

All valid points.^^

Length, like weight, is something that’ll be there 100% of the time.

Last time I thought about a shorty, I thought that even a straight buffer tube as pistols used to have would be ok on a single point sling if you used the taut sling for aim stability and had a hand stop.

And Im still firmly in the page that even compromised 5.56 beats 300 for what I want overall.

Not sure just how critical the differences in velocity/lethality are going to be with the pistol AR in the distances we would be using one for a defensive firearm.
How far would you think you might be using it in an Urban environment. Reliably that is.
We have beat steel at 100 yds with ours but never even intend to use one at those distances if it were to come to that.
And here is to the hope this never ever happens.