I think it’s time to build a Kenosha upper

[KJQ6945]

The military has been using 10.3 and 11.5 for decades. They aren’t as effective as a rifle length, obviously, but still plenty lethal.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

One of the things that pushes me to a longer (14.5, 16") barrel for my defensive/goto AR is the fact that I live in the country and it is overwhelming likely that it's only use will be to kill four legged predators that eat the family's livestock/pets.

Those shots might be at a little distance, but are not what the op is referring to, so I should keep that in mind.


I bet a 10.5" would be really handy in a situation like the op described. You do lose velocity, but like you guys have pointed out. We have a lot of data on 10.5" barrels being used against people and they apparently do quite the job at distances described in the op.

 

[Hohn]

One of the things that pushes me to a longer (14.5, 16") barrel for my defensive/goto AR is the fact that I live in the country and it is overwhelming likely that it's only use will be to kill four legged predators that eat the family's livestock/pets.

Those shots might be at a little distance, but are not what the op is referring to, so I should keep that in mind.


I bet a 10.5" would be really handy in a situation like the op described. You do lose velocity, but like you guys have pointed out. We have a lot of data on 10.5" barrels being used against people and they apparently do quite the job at distances described in the op.

For that use, I’d just stick with the 18” gun with the 3-15 optic I have now. I’ve but 20/20 inside 12” at 600 with it in a match, albeit just once. (80gr handloads).

I know the Arfcom gel test often tested from a 10.5, so I’ll check those out and find a load that works well.

I also just remembered the Fightlight SCR pistol lowers. For a skirmishing AR that has to be about the extreme end of the spectrum.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I hope you are proud of yourself, Hohn.

I have not bought even so much as a single AR upper/lower/grip/optic/magazine in at least 4years and now you have me really wanting to build/buy a 10.5" pistol during the tightest market I have seen since I bought my first one years ago....

Mumble, grumble, thanks alot INGO.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I hope you are proud of yourself, Hohn.

I have not bought even so much as a single AR upper/lower/grip/optic/magazine in at least 4years and now you have me really wanting to build/buy a 10.5" pistol during the tightest market I have seen since I bought my first one years ago....

Mumble, grumble, thanks alot INGO.

DO NOT BUY THAT UPPER!


(Buy an 11.5. better ballistics, a bit quieter, but not much more length)

 

[churchmouse]

I hope you are proud of yourself, Hohn.

I have not bought even so much as a single AR upper/lower/grip/optic/magazine in at least 4years and now you have me really wanting to build/buy a 10.5" pistol during the tightest market I have seen since I bought my first one years ago....

Mumble, grumble, thanks alot INGO.

Hey brother here to help. I spent the afternoon fitting this 10.5" up. Not done by any measure and waiting on the 1911 grip adaptor and grip panels.
And yeah my bench is a mess.
Here to help...

 

[mike4]

Looping back on "straight buffer tube" using the sling for outward tension. BTDT years ago. First pistol build in the days long before braces, LMT 10.5". My first two pistol lowers still have the receiver end plates with left side hole extending for an HK hook single point sling, which is still useful to quickly ID them. After shooting the twin to my upper (ordered at the same time) on an LE friend's SBR lower with a proper stock I went ahead and did a Form 1; the cost and the trouble were worth closing the speed and accuracy gap. The no-stock sling approach is better than throwing rocks, but very much not better than the alternatives, and there are more options today. Just my experience and conclusion, but as always encourage first hand experiment. Pretty inexpensive (other than the ammo these days) to pull the stock or brace off and just run the receiver extension alone. Might be a little more work to install a sling mounting point. I'd probably use one of the end plates with a QD socket if I was to do it again today.

Also repeating the advantages of 11.5" over 10.5" all else equal. It brings everything back away from the edge of not quite working with extraction.

 

[jsx1043]

Whatever you end up building, Gus Polinski requires that it be called the “Kenosha Kicker”...

 

[KJQ6945]

10.3” and 11.5” will both do what you want if built right. Colt has been building both since I was a little kid. 10.3” is awesome, but people have issues because they don’t build it right, not because 10.3 won’t work. Build what you want, just do it right, and you won’t have any issues. The 10.3 is the gun in my avatar, and has seen 1000s of rounds without an issue.

Colt 6945 in FDE, and 6933 in black

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Shorter, lightweight carbines have not been very popular. Sales show that people want chunky rifles as they do not carry them.

You want buy sub-6 pounds carbines here, Katana 2.0:

https://mhtdefense.com/shootrite-katana/

Note, Brownell's will be offering Katana 3.0 next year with something called WWSD carbine.

It is inadvisable to go looking for trouble as transpired in Kenosha. Stay home, don't go stepping in other peoples' problems.

 

[88E30M50]

This is what I put together for short range social work should I ever find myself in that situation. Its a DD 10.5 upper with an older Eotech. It rings steel well at 200 yards, so I have no doubt that it will work for situations under 10 yards.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[churchmouse]

This is what I put together for short range social work should I ever find myself in that situation. Its a DD 10.5 upper with an older Eotech. It rings steel well at 200 yards, so I have no doubt that it will work for situations under 10 yards.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

I have not pushed mine out that far yet. I will have 3 of these at the FGE.....lets play.

 

[MindfulMan]

This is what I put together for short range social work should I ever find myself in that situation. Its a DD 10.5 upper with an older Eotech. It rings steel well at 200 yards, so I have no doubt that it will work for situations under 10 yards.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

10" barrels are so long ..... suitable for a .308, however !

In 5.56, drop down to an 8" barrel, and you'll only lose another 235 fps.
Graph courtesy of Ballistics by the Inch.

.223 Rifle Results in fps

Click here for a Muzzle Energy graph for the tests in this caliber.

barrel length	Remington UMC 45 gr. JHP	Remington UMC 50 gr. JHP	Remington UMC 55 gr. MC
18"	3354	3179	2983
16"	3257	3076	2943
14"	3099	2901	2878
12"	2943	2964	2724
10"	2776	2682	2616
8"	2536	2478	2380
6"	2189	2153	2041
5"	1939	1921	1861
4"	1709	1674	1564
3"	1277	1276	1147

 

[churchmouse]

10" barrels are so long ..... suitable for a .308, however !

In 5.56, drop down to an 8" barrel, and you'll only lose another 235 fps.
Graph courtesy of Ballistics by the Inch.

.223 Rifle Results in fps

Click here for a Muzzle Energy graph for the tests in this caliber.

barrel length	Remington UMC 45 gr. JHP	Remington UMC 50 gr. JHP	Remington UMC 55 gr. MC
18"	3354	3179	2983
16"	3257	3076	2943
14"	3099	2901	2878
12"	2943	2964	2724
10"	2776	2682	2616
8"	2536	2478	2380
6"	2189	2153	2041
5"	1939	1921	1861
4"	1709	1674	1564
3"	1277	1276	1147

So loosing 300 fps has some of you folks thinking a 10" is a bad idea. Really....

 

[DadSmith]

I'm thinking of building a 10.5" 556 it will be shooting Speer 75gr Gold Dots so thinking 1-7 maybe 1-8 twist.

However, right now not happening unless I find a lower, and parts,, upper and parts at pre Covid, Riot, Election Gun rush prices.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm thinking of building a 10.5" 556 it will be shooting Speer 75gr Gold Dots so thinking 1-7 maybe 1-8 twist.

However, right now not happening unless I find a lower, and parts,, upper and parts at pre Covid, Riot, Election Gun rush prices.

I have been buying the matched sets (upper/lower) from the Standard Mfg. Co. They are not "CHEAP" (man I hate that word when used in relation to guns and gun parts) but these rival any I have ever seen. Getting the rest of the bits and pieces is a challenge right now. The Ingo classies helped me towards finishing the one I have on the bench presently.

 

[MindfulMan]

So loosing 300 fps has some of you folks thinking a 10" is a bad idea. Really....

Didn't say it was a bad idea. I love my 10.5" barrel Ruger AR pistol. ......just that if you want to go short, another 2" shorter doesn't have much effect.

 

[DadSmith]

I have been buying the matched sets (upper/lower) from the Standard Mfg. Co. They are not "CHEAP" (man I hate that word when used in relation to guns and gun parts) but these rival any I have ever seen. Getting the rest of the bits and pieces is a challenge right now. The Ingo classies helped me towards finishing the one I have on the bench presently.

Thanks CM I'll look that direction.

 

[churchmouse]

Didn't say it was a bad idea. I love my 10.5" barrel Ruger AR pistol. ......just that if you want to go short, another 2" shorter doesn't have much effect.

Not directed at you wild man. Some folks get a bit picky (and thats fine of course) about these things I guess.

 

[MindfulMan]

Not directed at you wild man. Some folks get a bit picky (and thats fine of course) about these things I guess.

I gotcha, amigo !