"I Vote For The Man" An Outdated Concept....

[BugI02]

The study results you're talking about seems to be consistent with other studies I've read about. But, the wealthy, educated, leftist whites are a small minority compared with the entire left. They're just really loud and have a really huge platform in media. They also use strong arm tactics to mobshame dissenters on the left into silence.

So do you have any evidence of widespread friends and family becoming enemies? I have some pretty progressive family. Prolly not going to get them to change their minds on gun control. But they understand that being a 2A supporter, I'm not their enemy. We can disagree. They get their vote just like we get ours. As long as the process is fair, and both sides are represented honestly. And that's one area where I've made some headway with family. The process is not fair. It's very biased against the 2A. I've shown them what the anti-gun side claims, vs the actual reality. They've admitted it was dishonest. Point is, that's not how enemies interact with each other. My progressive in-laws are not my enemies either.

Because the fringe left has control of the entire left, THAT'S the danger. There seems to be some evidence that moderate left people are starting to move to the right, because they see the bat**** craziness. So it would inaccurate to call those "enemies".

I will accord them non-combatant status when they stop acting like my enemy

 

[jamil]

I will accord them non-combatant status when they stop acting like my enemy

But aren't you attributing to an entire group the actions of a minority? Most folks, left or right, just want to live their lives and do their thing. People disagree on policy stuff. They always have. What's changed here is that the fringes are taking over, and it's mostly on the left, but it's on the right too, at least a little.

 

[Expat]

But aren't you attributing to an entire group the actions of a minority? Most folks, left or right, just want to live their lives and do their thing. People disagree on policy stuff. They always have. What's changed here is that the fringes are taking over, and it's mostly on the left, but it's on the right too, at least a little.

I wish... there are only a hand full of Senators and Congressmen that I would consider conservative.

 

[jamil]

I wish... there are only a hand full of Senators and Congressmen that I would consider conservative.

Not quite sure what you're saying. I want more true fiscal conservatives. I guess maybe that's a fringe position these days. But the fringe I referred to is the collectivist/authoritarian fringe on the right.

 

[bwframe]

DEMOCRATS USED TO DISAGREE ABOUT GUN CONTROL. THE 2020 CANDIDATES DON'T.

...Just look at the most recent National Rifle Association ratings for a dozen of the presidential candidates: Harris, Booker, Joe Biden, and John Delaney rate a seven on the NRA's one to 100 support scale. Gillibrand, Klobuchar, Sanders, Warren, Beto O'Rourke, and Sherrod Brown all rate a 13. Governor John Hickenlooper got a failing grade from the NRA for his work to pass bipartisan gun control in Colorado. Only Montana Governor Steve Bullock pulls decent NRA ratings—a 43—but he doesn't look to be anywhere close to the top tier of candidates right now.

This agreement on gun-control issues marks a remarkable shift for the party. A little over a decade ago, most national Democratic candidates didn't want to bring up gun control on the stump. Democrats were largely convinced that their support for gun control had cost them control of the Congress in the 1990s and the presidency in 2000, and they radically retreated on the issue, while the NRA became far more aggressive and more explicitly partisan in its support and its messaging....

 

[BugI02]

But aren't you attributing to an entire group the actions of a minority? Most folks, left or right, just want to live their lives and do their thing. People disagree on policy stuff. They always have. What's changed here is that the fringes are taking over, and it's mostly on the left, but it's on the right too, at least a little.

I might be persuaded to let them plead to a lesser charge, perhaps aiding and abetting

 

[jamil]

I might be persuaded to let them plead to a lesser charge, perhaps aiding and abetting

I give people like my in-laws a pass. They live in a bubble. Their city is progressive. Their neighborhood is progressive. All their friends are progressive. The media they're exposed to is progressive. No one ever disagrees with them on facebook. They think they're moderates--not left, not right. Maybe compared to Urban California they're moderates. I think they're firmly left. Not fringe bat**** crazy left, but certainly not in the center either. They can listen to reason, but they're very distrustful of people on the right. They're not the enemy. The ideologues are.

 

[jamil]

DEMOCRATS USED TO DISAGREE ABOUT GUN CONTROL. THE 2020 CANDIDATES DON'T.

...Just look at the most recent National Rifle Association ratings for a dozen of the presidential candidates: Harris, Booker, Joe Biden, and John Delaney rate a seven on the NRA's one to 100 support scale. Gillibrand, Klobuchar, Sanders, Warren, Beto O'Rourke, and Sherrod Brown all rate a 13. Governor John Hickenlooper got a failing grade from the NRA for his work to pass bipartisan gun control in Colorado. Only Montana Governor Steve Bullock pulls decent NRA ratings—a 43—but he doesn't look to be anywhere close to the top tier of candidates right now.

This agreement on gun-control issues marks a remarkable shift for the party. A little over a decade ago, most national Democratic candidates didn't want to bring up gun control on the stump. Democrats were largely convinced that their support for gun control had cost them control of the Congress in the 1990s and the presidency in 2000, and they radically retreated on the issue, while the NRA became far more aggressive and more explicitly partisan in its support and its messaging....

And?

 

[Expat]

Not quite sure what you're saying. I want more true fiscal conservatives. I guess maybe that's a fringe position these days. But the fringe I referred to is the collectivist/authoritarian fringe on the right.

I should have finished my thought. I always assume people can read my mind.
The next sentence would have been, or we wouldn't still be running a huge deficit every year.

 

[BugI02]

I give people like my in-laws a pass. They live in a bubble. Their city is progressive. Their neighborhood is progressive. All their friends are progressive. The media they're exposed to is progressive. No one ever disagrees with them on facebook. They think they're moderates--not left, not right. Maybe compared to Urban California they're moderates. I think they're firmly left. Not fringe bat**** crazy left, but certainly not in the center either. They can listen to reason, but they're very distrustful of people on the right. They're not the enemy. The ideologues are.

That kind of seems like a distinction based on volition. If you kill America because you were sleepwalking through the electoral process or because you planned the crime, you're still a murderer - only the degree varies

What serves to weaken something else can be described as an enemy, as in "Perfect is the enemy of good enough"

 

[jamil]

That kind of seems like a distinction based on volition. If you kill America because you were sleepwalking through the electoral process or because you planned the crime, you're still a murderer - only the degree varies

What serves to weaken something else can be described as an enemy, as in "Perfect is the enemy of good enough"

My in-laws aren’t my enemy. Do you have lefty friends or relatives? If so, do you classify them as “the enemy”?

 

[BugI02]

Lefty acquaintances (social), no lefty friends. Some 'deer in the headlights' relatives who don't like the policies of the left but get their news from suspect sources and pretty much believe the Orange Man Bad trope so they dither politically. They are much better at local politics, but they still live in NY so bad is oh so obviously bad

I've got a nephew who served in Iraq, regular army. He believes only ex-military should be allowed to own guns because only they have the necessary training, this though I can outshoot him with pistol or scoped rifle and likely could do the same with irons if I could ****ing see. I don't quite know what to make of him

 

[Hohn]

As a vet, I can't grasp how another Vet would consider only vets worth of the 2A. Has he not heard of PTSD?

 

[cce1302]

As a vet, I can't grasp how another Vet would consider only vets worth of the 2A. Has he not heard of PTSD?

I know, right? As a veteran, he should do no less than support and defend the constitution.

 

[zippy23]

I would like to say that "Voting for the man not the party" has resulted in a republican party that has many many RINOs in it. McCain just one perfect example. Today yes, i think we can only hope to vote for the team that wont take away freedoms, or at least the team that prolongs what we have for as long as possible. With this generation coming up we have no prayer at all. I just cant see a way in 20 years how there will be enough people that want freedom......and the reason is public education. Harvard is a breeding ground for the David Hoggs now. Public schooling is so outrageous that my 3rd grader knew more about the presidential election between trump and hill dog than she did about her times tables. Public education breads liberals. We have to argue that a man isnt a woman now!! there is no long future game now. Preserve, prepare as best we can.

 

[Ingomike]

Do you have a concept of congressional approval ratings?

something in the 6% approval range.

And for individual congress people? Over 60% approval is what I've consistently seen reported.

A big majority approve of their congress person, while loathing other people's congress reps...

MM

 

[KLB]

Gee, I feel like I've seen this discussion around here once or twice before. Same tired arguments.

In a nutshell, this is another of the "if you don't think like I do, you are a _______" topics.

Let's drum up some fear of the other guys. They are coming for our guns. Obama, Schumer, and Pelosi will ban them all! Except they didn't do anything when they had control.

Our team is pro-gun! When we have the house, Senate, and President watch out! Except they wouldn't even vote on a pro-gun bill. Not even something like taking suppressors off of the NFA list or national reciprocity.

And I will say again, those you call RINOs, are the Republicans. They may not be what YOU think a Republican is, but they are what the Party is today. They are probably CINOs.

 

[bwframe]

Still ain't seeing any pro-gun dems...

 

[mmpsteve]

Gee, I feel like I've seen this discussion around here once or twice before. Same tired arguments.

In a nutshell, this is another of the "if you don't think like I do, you are a _______" topics.

Let's drum up some fear of the other guys. They are coming for our guns. Obama, Schumer, and Pelosi will ban them all! Except they didn't do anything when they had control.

Our team is pro-gun! When we have the house, Senate, and President watch out! Except they wouldn't even vote on a pro-gun bill. Not even something like taking suppressors off of the NFA list or national reciprocity.

And I will say again, those you call RINOs, are the Republicans. They may not be what YOU think a Republican is, but they are what the Party is today. They are probably CINOs.

Yes, it's a sad state of affairs. What do we do about it?

.

 

[KLB]

Yes, it's a sad state of affairs. What do we do about it?

.

Blindly voting for whoever had a R next to their name just tells the party they are doing the right thing.

I liked the original Tea Party. The one before it was preempted into what it is now. It was sad to see both sides run campaigns against those that wanted a government that was smaller and more fiscally responsible. It will take that sort of local level campaign to get candidates elected in primaries, and then hopefully into office to turn things around. Then of course there is the fight against the machine of the party. If you don't vote the party line you are nothing but a D after all.