IDPA Flagrant Penalty-Failure to Engage

[Cameramonkey]

Well now you have to name names.

Nope. That will not be happening.

 

[in625shooter]

Uspsa production and IDPA ssp equipment rules are (or at least were when I used to shoot IDPA) very similar. I used to use the same gun for both. I made GM with a G34 that was wildly modified... Sites, grip tape, and a taran connector [sarcasm]. the CZs/clones have become popular, and are in some regards better, but Vogel has proven the very top guys can still do well with a nearly stock Glock. I could try to buy my way up with better guns, but it wouldn't get me much in real performance... The money spent would do better to be invested in ammo. That I don't finish as well in majors as I used to is due to my lack of practice while everyone else has been working hard, not because everyone else is spending coin on tangfos.

My limited gun is also wildly modified... A G35 with the same mods as my production gun. I've beat a lot of folks shooting very pricy 2011s. As for all the guys who beat me, I give credit to the shooter, not the gun (even if I might drool over their gun).

someone using equipment race as an excuse to not shoot matches, is, frankly, just looking for excuses... And to be really frank, probably not only excuses for not shooting, but probably for sucking also.

-rvb

I was just discussing what I have seen and observed with different categories and the eagerness to add new categories everytime a new marketing thing comes up. And that can make it an equipment race (like the example of 6 shot revolvers are no longer competitive due to capacity). Not much of an excuse not to shoot just one of the irks. It has more pros than cons as both do.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I was just discussing what I have seen and observed with different categories and the eagerness to add new categories everytime a new marketing thing comes up. And that can make it an equipment race (like the example of 6 shot revolvers are no longer competitive due to capacity). Not much of an excuse not to shoot just one of the irks. It has more pros than cons as both do.

Nope! That never happens. It was pure coincidence that at the same time IDPA introduced the PCC division, Wilson Combat introduced their first PCC. (Joyce Wilson is the executive director of IDPA)

 

[rvb]

I was just discussing what I have seen and observed with different categories and the eagerness to add new categories everytime a new marketing thing comes up. And that can make it an equipment race (like the example of 6 shot revolvers are no longer competitive due to capacity).

The 8 shot revo is an example where USPSA, IMO, screwed the pooch. (But it barely pegs my give-a-sh meter because, well, it's revo. ). But Ok you've got an example.... I don't see how it relates to the discussion above about production... Nor do I see how adding divisions inherently creates an equipment race.

-rvb

 

[downrange72]

Can we ban 'rule threads'?

It appears they suck the life out of every shooting sport.

 

[Grelber]

Can we ban 'rule threads'?

Meh, it is like when you have something in your house that looks really bad and really ought to be fixed.

Just don't look there.

 

[Bosshoss]

Can we ban 'rule threads'?

It appears they suck the life out of every shooting sport.

Yep I tried to make the point to just shoot and have fun and not sweat the rules(except the safety rules).
Well I'm heading to Owensboro to shoot although I should skip it because it's not fair that everyone else has a higher capacity autoloader than my Hi capacity revolver............
Nah I am going to have fun and visit with friends and enjoy shooting my wheel gun.

No excuses!!!

 

[in625shooter]

The 8 shot revo is an example where USPSA, IMO, screwed the pooch. (But it barely pegs my give-a-sh meter because, well, it's revo. ). But Ok you've got an example.... I don't see how it relates to the discussion above about production... Nor do I see how adding divisions inherently creates an equipment race.

-rvb

Let me clarify I am not griping just an observation on what I feel is an equipment race and rules in USPSA did it irk me? Yes but I have still shot occasionally in IPSC. What no one has ever brought up along with the revolver capacity is production has the same rule but since they (USPSA) only allows 10 rounds in whatever state you live you they don't say anything but in the World shoot production can hold 15 rounds. I suspect the reason no one complained about that is they don't have to buy new equipment to shoot their own class whether world shoot or if USPSA starts allowing 15 rounds in production. They just simply put more BB's in the mag.

 

[rvb]

World shoot is run by a different organization, IPSC. It has nothing to do with USPSA. USPSA is affiliated with IPSC only that membership in USPSA enables participation in the IPSC world shoot, but they are not the same. There are very few ipsc matches in the US. Ipsc is a whole different rule set. 10 vs 15 in production is one of many, many differences between the two.

 

[in625shooter]

World shoot is run by a different organization, IPSC. It has nothing to do with USPSA. USPSA is affiliated with IPSC only that membership in USPSA enables participation in the IPSC world shoot, but they are not the same. There are very few ipsc matches in the US. Ipsc is a whole different rule set. 10 vs 15 in production is one of many, many differences between the two.

Now your playing lawyer ball. Here's why I disagree with your statement. There are IPSC matches just within the US they are under USPSA rules where outside the US UPSC falls under IPSC rules. Look at the match descriptions of an IPDC match at say Wildcat Valley and look at that same match description on a world shoot or outside the CONUS IPSC club match.

Calling Rhino to chime in.

 

[Bosshoss]

Rvb already covered this. USPSA and IPSC have nothing to do with each other.
There are no IPSC matches in Indiana.
For this reason I don't really care what their rules are.

 

[rvb]

Now your playing lawyer ball. Here's why I disagree with your statement. There are IPSC matches just within the US they are under USPSA rules where outside the US UPSC falls under IPSC rules. Look at the match descriptions of an IPDC match at say Wildcat Valley and look at that same match description on a world shoot or outside the CONUS IPSC club match.

Calling Rhino to chime in.

hardly playing lawyer. Ha! some people still use the terms interchangeably, especially informally. But that's about where it ends.

did you know there are actual IPSC matches in the US? Did you know there are actual USPSA matches outside the US? They are different organizations, with different rules. They are, of course very similar.... But it's like Calling someone a lawyer to say IDPA and USPSA are different. From the outside they look the same, but they aren't.

Uspsa makes up the US region of IPSC. Being a member of USPSA makes you eligible to shoot in IPSC matches (incl world shoot). That's the only reason we retain any relationship with IPSC. I have never shot an IPSC match under IPSC Rules in my life. To say I've shot "IPSC" because USPSA makes up the US IPSC region is real lawyer ball......

the USPSA rule book used to have both rules in it... It would just say something like "US only: ..." for USPSA matches. The split was made complete a few years ago and now the USPSA book only applies to USPSA.

-rvb

 

[rhino]

Now your playing lawyer ball. Here's why I disagree with your statement. There are IPSC matches just within the US they are under USPSA rules where outside the US UPSC falls under IPSC rules. Look at the match descriptions of an IPDC match at say Wildcat Valley and look at that same match description on a world shoot or outside the CONUS IPSC club match.

Calling Rhino to chime in.

USPSA is separate from IPSC now in terms of rules, even though USPSA is the US region of IPSC.

There are actual IPSC matches held in the US under IPSC rules. In fact, the 2014 IPSC World Shoot was held in Florida. The IPSC Pan-Am was in Berry in 2000. We'll see a few club-level, section-level, and maybe region-level IPSC matches prior to any big IPSC shoot that get hosted here again. I think the closest IPSC matches to us have been in Michigan.

 

[BJones]

TOO MANY RULES............

To many rules that are very subjective. It kind of like the bible, everyone interprets it in a different way.
I shoot both and enjoy both, however I find that the rules of IDPA are more mis-interpreted than the other disciplines.