Indiana bill to raise gas tax and toll more roads

[KMaC]

Sheepdog4life- "The rest of us make up the deficit by paying higher gasoline taxes and other taxes, like income taxes, as a significant portion of the highway costs are covered by general revenue."

I don't think this is right. I think all road construction funds come from the gas taxes and special transportation fees, not the General Fund.


Wikipedia/federal highway trust fund. "Prior to the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 and the establishment of the Highway Trust Fund, roads were financed directly from the General Fund of the United States Department of the Treasury. The 1956 Act directed federal fuel tax to the fund to be used exclusively for highway construction and maintenance."

 

[jedi]

Like others have stated, I don't mind paying for my usage of roads and bridges... but what I do mind is how much we subsidize commercial trucking.

A legally loaded semi truck "inflicts" 100 to 1,000 times the amount of damage to roads and bridges versus even the largest SUV. This is per mile driven... diesel and other taxes paid by the trucking industry don't come close to that proportion.

The rest of us make up the deficit by paying higher gasoline taxes and other taxes, like income taxes, as a significant portion of the highway costs are covered by general revenue.

I dont have the answer but if you impose a higher tax,on the trucks all you do is impose that on the public in the end.

That gallon of milk you buy at aldis gets their via truck. The transoortation goes will juat get increases in the final milk price.

Those shoes you buy on amazon with free shipping will continue to be fre but guess what its gonna cost you more.

 

[churchmouse]

I dont have the answer but if you impose a higher tax,on the trucks all you do is impose that on the public in the end.

That gallon of milk you buy at aldis gets their via truck. The transoortation goes will juat get increases in the final milk price.

Those shoes you buy on amazon with free shipping will continue to be fre but guess what its gonna cost you more.

Exactly. These big company's do not pay their taxes folks. We pay them as end users. They right the checks after we fund the accounts.
Making the big boys pay more taxes only trickles down to us as end users.

 

[jedi]

I dont blame the big company. Heck any biz for that matter. They are after all in the biz of making money.

 

[CampingJosh]

I dont have the answer but if you impose a higher tax,on the trucks all you do is impose that on the public in the end.

That gallon of milk you buy at aldis gets their via truck. The transoortation goes will juat get increases in the final milk price.

Those shoes you buy on amazon with free shipping will continue to be fre but guess what its gonna cost you more.

But this makes it into a consumption tax, which is basically as fair as you can get.

 

[Dino Bravo]

I think we should stop using tax money for pro sports and put it toward something like roads etc but that's just me...

 

[avboiler11]

I like roads...roads in good shape, with many lanes, and bridges in good shape with many lanes too, because I loathe traffic and the time wasted sitting in it.

As such, I'm completely okay with this. Fuel excise taxes are a consumption tax - the more you use, the more you pay, and even driving a 4x4 pickup my additional out of pocket will be <$100/year. Given the value I place on my time, I consider that C-note money well spent.

I'd support a 5-10 cent/gal bump in the federal fuel excise tax too...so long as 100% of the funds were earmarked for the Highway Trust Fund.

And I say that as a guy who pays $2 every time I cross the Ohio River...who hasn't sat in traffic ONCE since the Kennedy fully reopened last year. Again, value of time...

<shrug>

 

[jedi]

But... But... History shows us that once they have a big pot of money that cannot help themselves and use it for something else.

 

[eldirector]

It just blows my mind that we can spend untold millions on round-abouts, bike lanes, and recreational trails - all NEW projects, and yet we have to raise taxes to maintain all of our EXISTING infrastructure that (supposedly) we have been paying taxes to support all along.

Build, build, build, but Heaven forbid we maintain anything.

 

[historian]

I keep asking why we continue to increase funds for K-12 education. We could clear the money for roads by not continually raising the amount we dump into the sewer of public "education". If we simply gave every student a $5K voucher to be used at the school of their choice, plus a small transportation budget to public schools, we could see changes happen and not have to have a tax hike. But, then again, people would whine that Republicans don't care about education. So pick your poison. Do you want a tax hike on gas or do you want to force public schools into necessary austerity?

 

[eldirector]

Don't get me started on education spending, and the current referendums. We already spend more per student than most other developed nations. And our test scores are an embarrassment. Spending more? May as well just light it on fire.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Sheepdog4life- "The rest of us make up the deficit by paying higher gasoline taxes and other taxes, like income taxes, as a significant portion of the highway costs are covered by general revenue."

I don't think this is right. I think all road construction funds come from the gas taxes and special transportation fees, not the General Fund.


Wikipedia/federal highway trust fund. "Prior to the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 and the establishment of the Highway Trust Fund, roads were financed directly from the General Fund of the United States Department of the Treasury. The 1956 Act directed federal fuel tax to the fund to be used exclusively for highway construction and maintenance."

While the federal fuel tax is (supposedly) to be used exclusively for highway construction and maintenance, that doesn't mean that the money spent on highways comes exclusively from the federal fuel tax. This 2011 fact sheet indicates that about a third of all highway funds come from state ($30B) and federal ($18B) general revenue.

https://taxfoundation.org/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/

Nationwide in 2011, highway user fees and user taxes made up just 50.4 percent of state and local expenses on roads. State and local governments spent $153.0 billion on highway, road, and street expenses but raised only $77.1 billion in user fees and user taxes ($12.7 billion in tolls and user fees, $41.2 billion in fuel taxes, and $23.2 billion in vehicle license taxes).[3] The rest was funded by $30 billion in general state and local revenues and $46 billion in federal aid (approximately $28 billion derived from the federal gasoline tax and $18 billion from general federal revenues or deficit financed).

I dont have the answer but if you impose a higher tax,on the trucks all you do is impose that on the public in the end.

That gallon of milk you buy at aldis gets their via truck. The transoortation goes will juat get increases in the final milk price.

Those shoes you buy on amazon with free shipping will continue to be fre but guess what its gonna cost you more.

I believe that you are correct... if through fuel taxes or fees, semi's paid their actual share of the damage they do to roads, that would cause the cost of items shipped, including milk, to go up. But, I would say that the cost of milk (bad example due to all of the other subsidies, lol) would then be what it truly cost.

But, it is not a zero sum game of higher gas tax or cheaper milk with it all being a wash.

It is a truism that when you subsidize something, you get more of it. So, with both with gasoline taxes and income taxes, we are subsidizing semis to drive around pulverizing our already crumbling highways and bridges.

 

[historian]

The other issue to look at is that the gas tax did not rise with inflation. That means it is 76 cents on the dollar for the gas tax. The diesel tax was at 48 cents on the dollar.

 

[KMaC]

Sheepdog, thanks for researching and correcting my misstatement. I apologize, no offense intended when I contradicted you. I like that INGO usually gets the facts straight after enough posts.

 

[mom45]

I like roads...roads in good shape, with many lanes, and bridges in good shape with many lanes too, because I loathe traffic and the time wasted sitting in it.

As such, I'm completely okay with this. Fuel excise taxes are a consumption tax - the more you use, the more you pay, and even driving a 4x4 pickup my additional out of pocket will be <$100/year. Given the value I place on my time, I consider that C-note money well spent.

I'd support a 5-10 cent/gal bump in the federal fuel excise tax too...so long as 100% of the funds were earmarked for the Highway Trust Fund.

And I say that as a guy who pays $2 every time I cross the Ohio River...who hasn't sat in traffic ONCE since the Kennedy fully reopened last year. Again, value of time...

<shrug>

Are you figuring in the extra $15 on your license plates too? Registration fees are going up as part of this bill.

There are also some additional surcharges on electric vehicles since they don't buy a lot of gas so I guess that helps compensate for their use of the roads that isn't paid for through gas taxes.

 

[Longhair]

Are you figuring in the extra $15 on your license plates too? Registration fees are going up as part of this bill.

There are also some additional surcharges on electric vehicles since they don't buy a lot of gas so I guess that helps compensate for their use of the roads that isn't paid for through gas taxes.

This is what burns me, I own a boat, car, old military truck that I seldom drive/use and it just cost me an extra $45 bucks for them to sit in the garage. The DMV has already proven they charge incorrect fees.

Increase the fuel tax and tax the user fairly.

 

[aaron580]

Have a friend in the state house, she agrees to tax diesel vehicles because they do more damage to the road.... yet my diesel gets better mileage than any gas truck so....... i need to be taxed. And semi's are heavy since they haul all the goods you get for cheap. We had a large discussion about this. F#ck the road tax

 

[mom45]

This is what burns me, I own a boat, car, old military truck that I seldom drive/use and it just cost me an extra $45 bucks for them to sit in the garage. The DMV has already proven they charge incorrect fees.

Increase the fuel tax and tax the user fairly.

The boat/trailer is exempt. The military truck might be eligible for a collector plate or something. Two of our vehicles are going to be switched to collector vehicle plates as those are exempt since they are not used as main transportation vehicles. The motorcycles also appear to be exempt. Here is the link to the full text. https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2017/bills/house/1002#digest-heading

This is copied from the text of the bill.

Establishes a $15 transportation infrastructure improvement fee that applies to the registration of all motor vehicles except trailers, semitrailers, non-motive recreational vehicles, special machinery, vehicles registered as military vehicles, vehicles registered as collector vehicles, motor driven cycles, trucks, tractors used with a semitrailer, and for-hire buses with a declared gross weight greater than 26,000 pounds. Increases annual registration fees for certain motor vehicles with a declared gross weight that equals or exceeds 26,000 pounds. Requires a person who registers an electric vehicle to pay a supplemental registration fee of $150 with an increase every five years based on an index factor. Requires a person who registers a hybrid vehicle to pay a supplemental registration fee of $50 with an increase every five years based on an index factor.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The boat/trailer is exempt. The military truck might be eligible for a collector plate or something. Two of our vehicles are going to be switched to collector vehicle plates as those are exempt since they are not used as main transportation vehicles. The motorcycles also appear to be exempt. Here is the link to the full text. https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2017/bills/house/1002#digest-heading

This is copied from the text of the bill.

Establishes a $15 transportation infrastructure improvement fee that applies to the registration of all motor vehicles except trailers, semitrailers, non-motive recreational vehicles, special machinery, vehicles registered as military vehicles, vehicles registered as collector vehicles, motor driven cycles, trucks, tractors used with a semitrailer, and for-hire buses with a declared gross weight greater than 26,000 pounds. Increases annual registration fees for certain motor vehicles with a declared gross weight that equals or exceeds 26,000 pounds. Requires a person who registers an electric vehicle to pay a supplemental registration fee of $150 with an increase every five years based on an index factor. Requires a person who registers a hybrid vehicle to pay a supplemental registration fee of $50 with an increase every five years based on an index factor.

That's some wacky stuff right there. I understand it (I guess), but if .gov is trying to encourage alternative energy sources, that seems like an odd way to do it.

 

[Thor]

That's some wacky stuff right there. I understand it (I guess), but if .gov is trying to encourage alternative energy sources, that seems like an odd way to do it.

I think this is meant to be a 'pay their fair share' measure. Either way I'd be happy to see fewer of the rolling cockroaches on the road paid for by tax incentives.