Indiana Knife Law: stop the misinformation!

[kevinj110]

Indy317,

Show me where in writing it is illegal to possess assisted opening knives. That is all I would like to see, I have yet to see where that is specifically forbidden.

Thanks.

He can't because they are legal.

 

[Indy317]

bwahahahhaa!! troll. typical lawyer style here. you wanna prove your smart? here is a novel idea. how about you EDUCATE yourself on how knives operate, and check back after your reality check on how much you truly DON'T know set in.

the button on an automatic knife "propel" nothing. they RELEASE a spring or similar. they don't "propel" anything. i have yet to see a button "propel" anything, as you need a mechanism in place to do the work....

end of the day, here is what you are doing here: you bust in the door on a thread in what the laws are clearly spelled out (oh, and quote me ONE case, outside of a district which EXPRESSLY forbides assisted opening knives, like Carmel or similiar, in which a person has been assest in Indiana and charged for posession of an illegal knife, and THAT CHARGE has stuck?? where is it?? oh, yeah. hasn't happened.) to help others in the state. you bring doubt onto something which there is no doubt about. assisted knives are legal. you can twist it up, all you want lawyer man.... but you don't know what your talking about. you want someone to praise how intelligent you are? its not gonna be me. because, son, your wrong. twist it, turn it, flip it, burn it.... post as long and hard as you want... end of the day. show me the arrest that has STUCK on a person carrying an assisted knife in reguards to that said knife being ILLEGAL.

go ahead, i'll wait while you type up some "hypothetical" long winded post, with multiquotes and all your "supposing" and guess work. meanwhile, my life will remain unchanged by your lack of knowledge on subjects you preach upon, simple becuase you consider yourself educated enough to do so.

bottom line: put up or shut up. show me the case in which your side of "illegal" is supported. innocent until proven guilty, sir. now quote the case.

Yes supreme master.

So, if someone gets locked up carrying such a knife, you are going to front some money for their legal defense?

You said cops would be arresting people if this law were illegal. Prove to me this hasn't happened. You can't, because while you would like to believe that no one has been arrested for having an assisted opening knife, you don't know for sure that isn't the case.

plea deals? come on. you have to be kidding if you think i am stupid enough to confuse a plea deal with someone being proven guilty.

So at least one police officer, a prosecutor, a defense attorney, and a judge all conspired to let a person who, according to you, is so clearly innocent of this law plead guilty to violating it?

too anyone reading who MAY be confused: plea deals are general not an admition of guilt. and for the most part, for most law abidding citiziens, are either from long, EXPENSIVE drawn out court cases, or are used to save face or time, or whatever the case may be.

Too anyone reading who MAY be confused: If you get arrested for a criminal act, the prosecutor, or someone in their office, reads over the probable cause affidavit to decide if the cop(s) were right to arrest given the law and evidence at hand. Then, a judge reads over the probable cause to see if such existed for an arrest. Even if the judge and prosecutor agree, the person being charged gets at the minimum a free attorney. If these knives were so cut and dry, then obviously there has _never_ been a person charged under this law. I find it hard to believe that three different people wouldn't screw up that bad, _if_ these "assisted" knives didn't fit the definition.

you are surely NOT giving the impression that anyone who have agreed to a "plea deal" is guilty of a supposed crime, are you?

???
You are surely NOT saying that every person who has ever plead guilty under a "plea deal" is totally innocent and never did the underlying crime?

Indy317,

Show me where in writing it is illegal to possess assisted opening knives. That is all I would like to see, I have yet to see where that is specifically forbidden.

Thanks.

Here is the issue, at least maybe with me. Define to me what exactly what an "assisted opening" knife is. If it is a: knife with a blade that may be propelled by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife. then it is forbidden...period. Fact is, despite what cubby is yelling while beating his chest, if your assisted knife in anyway has some sort of button or switch on the handle, and by pressing that button or switch with hand pressure in anyway causes the blade to move, that knife, to me at least, seems to easily fit as contraband as the law is written. Read the law as I wrote it above, as that is the law. If you want to trust internet lawyer cubby and others, go for it. Maybe they will pay your legal fees if you are unlucky enough to run into Mr. or Mrs. "Arrest them all" police officer? I posted not one, but _two_ attempts to change this part of the law. If the law ain't broken, why is someone trying to change it? What would the rational be for that?

Here is my opinion on the matter, assisted opening or whatever: If you have a knife, and you have it totally still, and you can use "hand pressure" to push a button, or slide a button, and those buttons are on the slide, and by that simple act, the blade moves to a set position (*)...then I believe the knife is illegal. The only loophole I see is if by doing this, you are actually unlocking the blade, to where it would just swing freely, then my opinion is that it would be legal, as gravity is causing the blade to move...and it would be a stretch to say any spring or gas propelled the blade. This would mean that if you held the knife in the closed position, with blade facing up, and you pushed/slide the button, the blade wouldn't move at all..as gravity, given the position of the knife, is making is the blade can't swing. If you turn the knife 180s and the blade then falls clear, that is a gravity type blade that was unlocked. If this is the one and only definition of an assisted opening knife, then I would say they are legal...but what I say, or what anyone else says, the fact remains that the only opinion that will eventually matter is that of a judge, prosecutor, LEO, and/or jury.

Cubby works for a retail establishment if I recall. I would wonder if they sell these knives and if he has a personal financial interest in making sales (directly or indirectly) of these knives?? Regardless of the interest, I then wonder if _any_ retail establishment who sells these knives would pay for the criminal defense of anyone who does end up proving they are facing criminal charges based on the knife they purchased at that store.

I am not wanting to debate the "is this right," I am only here urging caution. Some pro-knife folks are beating their chests loudly in this thread, but they are not lawyers, they have offered not promise to pay for a defense attorney of anyone arrested, and some may or may not have a vested personal financial interest in sales of such items.

 

[Indy317]

He can't because they are legal.

Your proof? Can you prove to me that no one in this state has ever been arrested for a violation of the statue having an assisted opening knife? I doubt it, just like I can't prove anyone has. Chances are no one here has access to any legal database that would contain every single arrest report, probable cause, property inventory sheet, court proceedings, motions filed, etc. filed in this state.

In conclusion: Unless someone can post an appeals court ruling claiming these knives are legal, I say it all depends on how your "assisted" opening knife works. Kevin, if you can prove this, by giving or showing me a piece of paper from some authority whose opinion really matters, then I would say they are legal. If some prosecutor says they are legal, then I will say they are legal in that county. If some judge dismisses a charge, then I will say they are legal in that county. If some judge dismisses a charge and the state appeals court refuses to hear the state's appeal, I will say they are legal all over the entire state. If the state appeals court, or the Indiana or US Supreme Court makes a ruling based on an arrest under Indiana law and they say they are legal, again, I will say they are legal all over the entire state. Until I see legal rulings/opinions from a good source, I will always tell people to contact their lawyer when they ask me if their assisted open knife is legal. The law is specific, and the mechanics of the knife may or may not meet the definition.

What it comes down to is this: Carry at your own risk. Despite the chest pounding here by some, not a one of them can post a published appeals or supreme court ruling on this issue. Until such happens, all of us here are doing is exactly what the lawyers will be doing...making arguments.

 

[tyler34]

heres some proof, if they were not legal then stores in indiana by law would not be allowed to sell them. unless you are someone of authority whose opinion really matters then I don't care what is coming out of your mouth.

 

[esrice]

Ok everyone. Let's bring the debate down a notch and stick to the facts. Both sides here are making some good points, so let's focus on those and keep the personal slandering out of it.

Thanks.

 

[Scarecrow]

So I am new here, read all 11 pages, and still don't know the answer. I do have another question though. I am military, does that change anything? Reason I ask is they issue us Benchmade auto's.

 

[tyler34]

indy here is some info and clarification for you. RoadsideImports LLC : Assisted Knife Laws and monday I will be calling the authorities in monroe co. for their stance on this issue. also I will be in contact with my aunt who is a state rep and former leo. do I want to do this no but if it will shut you up about this issue then I am glad to do it.

 

[tyler34]

Ok everyone. Let's bring the debate down a notch and stick to the facts. Both sides here are making some good points, so let's focus on those and keep the personal slandering out of it.

Thanks.

well then we need to come to a consensus that personal opinion based on fact is not fact and personally interpreting law based on personal opinion is not fact unless you are a lawmaker

 

[clt46910]

Arrest records are public records, they are open for all to search. There has been no arrest for assisted opening knives just because they was assisted opening. They are legal in Indiana, reason there is no court case to give someone a answer it because there had never been one in Indiana.

 

[cubby]

Ok everyone. Let's bring the debate down a notch and stick to the facts. Both sides here are making some good points, so let's focus on those and keep the personal slandering out of it.

Thanks.

he is making a mockery of this whole thread. spreading lies, and knowingly.

there are only two sides: lawful and unlawful. this the equivalant of one person coming into a thread about buying green beans and saying you can be imprisoned for buying them. why? becuase no where has it been proven you can buy green beans in accordance with the law.


your long posts, and large words may intimidate some people, but not this supreme commander. i can smell your BS before i open the thread. gotta love the internet for the fact that your preaching need not be based on fact, only based on an extensive vocabulary and a precevied higher intelligence.


how about this. i will borrow a assisted opening knife. i will sit in a resturuant, at a bus stop, in a parking lot. whatever. you make the call, for the calvary. if i get arrested, charged and convicted for possessing that knife, i will concede that the knives are illegal. other than that, you should know your FACTS before you cast doubt on a thread for FACTS (i know sometimes they get in the way of your story/counter arguement).

would this be allowed in an open carry thread?

unless you live in a district which EXPRESSLY forbides assisted opening knives (like Carmel) they are 200% legal in indiana.

 

[Indy317]

indy here is some info and clarification for you. RoadsideImports LLC : Assisted Knife Laws and monday I will be calling the authorities in monroe co. for their stance on this issue. also I will be in contact with my aunt who is a state rep and former leo. do I want to do this no but if it will shut you up about this issue then I am glad to do it.

Why are you so upset over this? The law is clear, but various terms are not defined, and the law does see broad. Why don't you ask your aunt why someone has tried _twice_ to change the law if there is no problem. As far as your link, means nothing. Some company, which has a financial interest in these knives, is the definitive law on the subject?

Again, I don't care _who_ you call and what their opinion is unless they are a judge who makes a ruling, a prosecutor who makes a public statement that they won't file charges, or an appeals court ruling of some sort.

There are plenty of laws where the authorities (LEOs, lawmakers, etc.) have said one thing, we get a court ruling..which is then "the law" and all those authorities back track and have to re-issue new advice/statements.

Also, I will take anything you say about this with a grain of salt. You are obviously obsessing over this to the point of being pretty nasty. I could see the conversation going this way:

tyler34: "Hey aunt, I have this assisted knife, is it illegal to have?"
Aunt: "Well, does it meet the definition of an illegal knife?"
tyler34: "No." (Your opinion, which may or may not be correct)
Aunt: "Then it is legal."

well then we need to come to a consensus that personal opinion based on fact is not fact and personally interpreting law based on personal opinion is not fact unless you are a lawmaker

It doesn't matter if a person is a lawmaker, as in a state rep. or senator. The real lawmakers are judges. The lawmakers can make whatever laws they want, don't mean anything because judges can take cases and blast those laws out of the water.

Arrest records are public records, they are open for all to search. There has been no arrest for assisted opening knives just because they was assisted opening. They are legal in Indiana, reason there is no court case to give someone a answer it because there had never been one in Indiana.

So you have actually read every single arrest under this statue and verified that every single knife the person was arrest for carrying wasn't an assisted opening knife? Didn't think so. Hell, even the two appeals court rulings (and one administrative ruling) doesn't go into the details of the knives the person(s) were arrested for having.

there are only two sides: lawful and unlawful. this the equivalant of one person coming into a thread about buying green beans and saying you can be imprisoned for buying them. why? becuase no where has it been proven you can buy green beans in accordance with the law.

With your own words in another thread, you basically said that some people that take a plea agreement are doing so not because they broke the law, but because they don't want to spend money for a trail, etc.. I agree with you on this, but here is the rub I have with your blanket "These knives are legal!" chest pounding: If a person who isn't rich, but isn't broke either gets arrested under this law, carrying because of what you and others are saying, they are going to be out money even if you and others believe their guilty pleas are a joke and totally unconstitutional. Again, you will be fine, others here will be fine, the poor guy who took your advice who had to shell out $1,000 for a crappy lawyer who told him to take the plea will be out money and have a conviction on his record. We have people here saying no one has been arrested under this law for an assisted opening knife, yet I highly doubt they have read every single probable cause and property sheet dealing with every single arrest in this state for violations of that law.

unless you live in a district which EXPRESSLY forbides assisted opening knives (like Carmel) they are 200% legal in indiana.

Funny how no "these knives are legal...no questions about it!! folks here wants to put their money where their mouth is. Not a one of them has offered to pay for a good, decent defense attorney for anyone arrested for such a knife. Instead, we are to take the word of a retail salesman that these knives are legal??

I am going to argue against this "no questions about it" logic, because I want folks to understand that what they read on the internet isn't law just because a bunch of posters say so. Again, I won't consider this issue solved statewide until some appeals court rules specifically these knives are legal.

 

[tyler34]

then why are you continuing your babble if nothing is good enough for you. heres a novel idea if your so vested in this argument do some of your own f-ing legwork and find out for yourself which you obviously haven't done because your still making arguments based on your own theory and conjecture that really just say the same thing over and over just mixing the words around to sound different. your ignorance really is a character flaw.

 

[Scutter01]

This is now the second warning. I will close and/or delete the thread if you cannot stay civil. The fact that you don't agree with what the other poster says does not give you the right to be obnoxious about it. If you have an argument WITH SUPPORTING FACTS, then feel free to post it.

 

[tyler34]

then just close it already and end this stupidity.