Indianapolis PD firearm seizure, no return

[shootersix]

I don't want to steal kirks fee, but have you tried the nra yet?, I friend who happens to be a lawyer (and huge friends of the nra supporter) told me he was contacted by the nra and asked to go talk "the judge" about getting some guns returned, he "pro bono'd" some time drove to the county, talked to the judge, and bam, the guns were returned lickety-split!

just a thought

 

[T.Lex]

I don't want to steal kirks fee, but have you tried the nra yet?, I friend who happens to be a lawyer (and huge friends of the nra supporter) told me he was contacted by the nra and asked to go talk "the judge" about getting some guns returned, he "pro bono'd" some time drove to the county, talked to the judge, and bam, the guns were returned lickety-split!

just a thought

I'm intensely curious if that was Marion County.

Outside of Marion County, my few involvements in this area were pretty reasonable. That is, I don't think the agency kept the firearm longer than it should have.

 

[VUPDblue]

So let me tell a little story of an INGOer and his stolen gun.

This INGOer had his vehicle stolen which also contained an NFA firearm. The gun was recovered about a year later during a search warrant service on some bad dudes by local FBI/IMPD task force. INGOer got a letter stating that his gun had been recovered and he needed to pick it up. INGOer went down to the City County Building and started the process, filled out the forms, prints, what have you. About a year later, he contacted me and asked if this was normal, since he still didn't have his gun back. I went down to the firearms branch, in uniform, and tried for a little bit of professional courtesy. The ladies that work up there are very, very nice, and showed me the file that was created for the INGOer and his now-recovered firearm. They had his Form1, prints, release paperwork, etc.... it looked ready to go to me. What they did not have, however, was the signed release form from the detective who recovered the gun. I went to the detective and again asked for a little professional courtesy, which he graciously provided in the form of an email to the firearms branch authorizing the release of the firearm as well as the necessary disposition form. I gave it about another week and went back down to the firearms branch and confirmed that they had all they need to release the gun. The very nice ladies said that they only now needed the signature of the supervisor and that they'd put it on her desk to be signed within the next day or two. That was on March 11 of this year. I didn't hear from the INGOer and presumed that he had received his gun and all was well. Well he contacted me on May 25th and asked if I'd heard anything, which of course I hadn't. I went back down there on June 1 and asked again about getting the damn release approved and, on that day, the supervisor was there. The very nice ladies passed her the file and asked if she'd sign it. She looked to me and asked why I was pushing for it to be done. I said that it was a good friend and I was looking to help him out and simply asking for a favor. I explained that everything I could possibly think of she would need should be in that file, including the Form 1. She was extremely annoyed with me. She looked through the file and said that she needed the police report on the recovery of the gun. I told her I'd go to my car and print it right now if she'd just sign the stupid release. She said that wasn't necessary and that she'd print it off herself and promised that she'd sign the form on the following Monday, June 4, and call the INGOer to come get his gun that day. Well she didn't. She did, however, call him on the following Friday, June 8, to come get his gun.

I learned that this process takes a very, very long time for two reasons. Bureaucracy and laziness. Not sure which is the greater hangup, but the process absolutely does NOT need to take as long as it does. It appears to me that lack of oversight of the 3 civilians who process the forms is probably the largest stumbling block. It's not that the two ladies need to be worked harder, but their boss has zero, ZERO fvcks to give about doing anything at all in any sort of expedient manner. It's a damn joke and I'm frankly embarrassed to be part of that organization, even if indirectly.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Thanks for the reply Kirk. I've been doing a little research using various web resources like Avvo. It's too bad that additional parties need to get involved to enforce .gov to comply with an enumerated Constitutional right but sounds like that happens all the time.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

In review, sorry if I came off dismissive, however, if you have problem like this, it is best to cut right to it and not "chase hands".

I have had excellent experiences (Indianapolis Airport police even cleaned the revolver before giving it back (they were likely gun guys themselves), and they stayed late for me) and I have had horrible experiences ("lost" guns).

However, just as in traffic stops, don't play cop games (remember, the cop on the street usually has absolute no idea what is happening in the property room) and chase hands with "detective sign offs" (again, not the cops' fault, I could just care less about internal processes), get to it and get the order.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm intensely curious if that was Marion County.

Outside of Marion County, my few involvements in this area were pretty reasonable. That is, I don't think the agency kept the firearm longer than it should have.

Marion County seems to be a unique critter.

 

[T.Lex]

Marion County seems to be a unique critter.

Wait.

That can't be.

The Indiana Constitution forbids special legislation.

 

[WebSnyper]

So let me tell a little story of an INGOer and his stolen gun.

This INGOer had his vehicle stolen which also contained an NFA firearm. The gun was recovered about a year later during a search warrant service on some bad dudes by local FBI/IMPD task force. INGOer got a letter stating that his gun had been recovered and he needed to pick it up. INGOer went down to the City County Building and started the process, filled out the forms, prints, what have you. About a year later, he contacted me and asked if this was normal, since he still didn't have his gun back. I went down to the firearms branch, in uniform, and tried for a little bit of professional courtesy. The ladies that work up there are very, very nice, and showed me the file that was created for the INGOer and his now-recovered firearm. They had his Form1, prints, release paperwork, etc.... it looked ready to go to me. What they did not have, however, was the signed release form from the detective who recovered the gun. I went to the detective and again asked for a little professional courtesy, which he graciously provided in the form of an email to the firearms branch authorizing the release of the firearm as well as the necessary disposition form. I gave it about another week and went back down to the firearms branch and confirmed that they had all they need to release the gun. The very nice ladies said that they only now needed the signature of the supervisor and that they'd put it on her desk to be signed within the next day or two. That was on March 11 of this year. I didn't hear from the INGOer and presumed that he had received his gun and all was well. Well he contacted me on May 25th and asked if I'd heard anything, which of course I hadn't. I went back down there on June 1 and asked again about getting the damn release approved and, on that day, the supervisor was there. The very nice ladies passed her the file and asked if she'd sign it. She looked to me and asked why I was pushing for it to be done. I said that it was a good friend and I was looking to help him out and simply asking for a favor. I explained that everything I could possibly think of she would need should be in that file, including the Form 1. She was extremely annoyed with me. She looked through the file and said that she needed the police report on the recovery of the gun. I told her I'd go to my car and print it right now if she'd just sign the stupid release. She said that wasn't necessary and that she'd print it off herself and promised that she'd sign the form on the following Monday, June 4, and call the INGOer to come get his gun that day. Well she didn't. She did, however, call him on the following Friday, June 8, to come get his gun.

I learned that this process takes a very, very long time for two reasons. Bureaucracy and laziness. Not sure which is the greater hangup, but the process absolutely does NOT need to take as long as it does. It appears to me that lack of oversight of the 3 civilians who process the forms is probably the largest stumbling block. It's not that the two ladies need to be worked harder, but their boss has zero, ZERO fvcks to give about doing anything at all in any sort of expedient manner. It's a damn joke and I'm frankly embarrassed to be part of that organization, even if indirectly.

That's just disheartening... would be interesting to see if that changed after a lawsuit or 2. Thank you for the transparency, that is most certainly appreciated. Do you strictly think it is just bureaucracy and laziness, or do you think she has an agenda (anti-gun, etc)? I realize that is just conjecture, but wondering what your opinion is.

 

[VUPDblue]

That's just disheartening... would be interesting to see if that changed after a lawsuit or 2. Thank you for the transparency, that is most certainly appreciated. Do you strictly think it is just bureaucracy and laziness, or do you think she has an agenda (anti-gun, etc)? I realize that is just conjecture, but wondering what your opinion is.

Honest answer? Lazy, apathetic and no incentive to actually do anything. Just my opinion.

plus the disposition order thing adds a whole other layer of stupid. The property room sends out disposition orders to officers exactly once a year, so that alone could add a year of waiting.

 

[WebSnyper]

Honest answer? Lazy, apathetic and no incentive to actually do anything. Just my opinion.

plus the disposition order thing adds a whole other layer of stupid. The property room sends out disposition orders to officers exactly once a year, so that alone could add a year of waiting.

Thanks for the info, and wow... once a year. That's crazy. I'm honestly amazed (though I should not be since it is govt we are discussing) that process has not been challenged substantially as yet.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Wait.

That can't be.

The Indiana Constitution forbids special legislation.

Hold on, I have a phone call to make to Mr. Harrington to bring that news to him.

 

[HoughMade]

Wait.

That can't be.

The Indiana Constitution forbids special legislation.

Any county with a population more than whatever and less than something when the last census was taken during a full moon when Venus was rising can be treated the exact same way.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Honest answer? Lazy, apathetic and no incentive to actually do anything. Just my opinion.

This sums up MANY segments of .gov. And some union positions. All those folks care about is that they show up as required, do only what they MUST do, and collect their pay. If they are actually useful/productive/etc is irrelevant. Showing up and punching the clock is all that is required. The supervisor that VUPD referenced is a poster child.

Note: I'm not painting ALL union members and govt lackeys as such, just that it is fairly prevalent. There are some good apples in the bunch.

 

[shootersix]

I'm intensely curious if that was Marion County.

Outside of Marion County, my few involvements in this area were pretty reasonable. That is, I don't think the agency kept the firearm longer than it should have.

no, sorry it wasn't marion county, the lawyer works in Evansville, and the actual case was in Gibson county, the funny part was that the local police asked the judge to keep the guns, they were convinced that he was a drug dealer, judge sided with the defendant and ordered immediate return of all guns

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Any county with a population more than whatever and less than something when the last census was taken during a full moon when Venus was rising can be treated the exact same way.

Well, it seems SOMEONE has his application in for the Indiana Court of Appeals vacancies.

 

[edporch]

Honest answer? Lazy, apathetic and no incentive to actually do anything. Just my opinion.

plus the disposition order thing adds a whole other layer of stupid. The property room sends out disposition orders to officers exactly once a year, so that alone could add a year of waiting.

And those in charge of the department from the Chief on down show their support of this "slow walk" de-facto gun grab by their doing nothing to change it.
So again I say, don't put much money in your carry pistol in Marion County, because if you need to use it for lawful self defense, don't expect to see it again anytime soon if ever.
This is a disgrace.

 

[rhino]

I'm curious if recovering non-firearm stolen property is a similarly mind-numbing experience. If not, then . . .

 

[HoughMade]

And those in charge of the department from the Chief on down show their support of this "slow walk" de-facto gun grab by their doing nothing to change it...

"De Facto Gun Grabber" was the name I used working my way through college.

 

[rhino]

"De Facto Gun Grabber" was the name I used working my way through college.

How much do those tear-away tuxedo pants cost, anyway?

 

[Notalentbum]

I'm curious if recovering non-firearm stolen property is a similarly mind-numbing experience. If not, then . . .

I believe this is a real key to telling the story!

 

[HoughMade]

How much do those tear-away tuxedo pants cost, anyway?

Back then, we had to buy the pants and then get someone to add the snaps. Yes, snaps. Only rookies use velcro, and then, only once.