Interesting Convo with Guardsmen.

[griffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo

There you go. The military going door-to-door with guns drawn, taking everyone's firearms, and openly stating they would shoot Americans.

 

[FortWayneGunfighter]

There you go. The military going door-to-door with guns drawn, taking everyone's firearms, and openly stating they would shoot Americans.

Okay yoohoo thats ONE unit saying they would fire on those who presented a hostile act on them man to man if you can tell me if someone raised a gun at you and you had yours you wouldnt shoot? 2nd IF you watched the police are confiscating weapons not the national guard who were acting in a capacity for the state not the federal government.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Okay yoohoo thats ONE unit saying they would fire on those who presented a hostile act on them man to man if you can tell me if someone raised a gun at you and you had yours you wouldnt shoot? 2nd IF you watched the police are confiscating weapons not the national guard who were acting in a capacity for the state not the federal government.

...AND immediately afterwards, action was taken to relieve the states of their powers over the guard. READ THE LINK. Additionally, there was no need to be there with guns in the first place! GAWD I wish we could get neg rep back or at least stoopid rep. Listen my friend, I am thankful for those who served before me and after me, that however does NOT mean I accept that they somehow have power over me when it is ME they serve! When they begin to think and act as if it is the other way around, we're gonna have trouble. MARK MY WORDS.

 

[AF Gunner]

Listen my friend, I am thankful for those who served before me and after me, that however does NOT mean I accept that they somehow have power over me when it is ME they serve![/QUOTE]

I don't know how many times I have said this to my military and LE friends. "Don't forget there will be a day that you take badge / uniform off" and when you do, you will just like thous "civilians" you are talking about.

and for our Marine friend - you are 100% correct you always have the right to self-defense. But when I'm standing inside my house with my rifle and some military / LE is outside the door and your that military / LE. Who has the right for self-defense? I know you said you would never do that, but that is the example you gave from the video. those cops and military in that video have the right to defend yourself.

 

[Mike.B]

I retired, from INARNG, 22 years, plus 4 in USMC, and I can ASSURE you, the State Guard, answers to the GOVERNOR..... When I was deployed, the Pres. ASKED the GOVERNOR, to deploy us... YES, while on AD, Guard members are paid under Title 10, Federal Money.... BUT, the State budget, comes from the Fed., anyway ..... NOT really much difference.... I am sure Jeremy, can tell you MORE ..... I Ret., 5 years ago, things COULD have changed.....

This is correct as of when I ETS (about 5 years ago). The INARNG and other "Guard" branches are commanded by the Governor.

 

[FortWayneGunfighter]

and for our Marine friend - you are 100% correct you always have the right to self-defense. But when I'm standing inside my house with my rifle and some military / LE is outside the door and your that military / LE. Who has the right for self-defense? I know you said you would never do that, but that is the example you gave from the video. those cops and military in that video have the right to defend yourself.

Yes it is everyone's right to defend themselves, did they necessarily need they firearms they had while going door to door not in my opinion but, however,


There is other factors did they go out to help people before and then get shot at by looters crazy survivalists who have lost it? I dont know I know if i were going to have my guys go down there i would have them with their weapons not to engage civilians but to protect ourselves a little ORM if i may. They are there to help people first and to try to keep things "as normal" as they can be-ie prevent widespread looting and stupid **** minimal intervention people if they need help help if not wish them a nice day and keep walking. Cops have guns all the time right sometimes they may even walk down the street you live maybe even knock on your door if something is up or say you left your car lights on? You wouldnt automatically think "shoot them self defense" just because they are there it doesnt mean they are their to take your guns and shoot you in the street.

For all those who take a military gun confiscating military as a serious threat-which it would be-I know of at least 5 Marines and one Corpsman in 29 palms that would not get an order because i would not pass that order to them i am also fairly confident that i would not get such an order why one word Mattis if you dont know who that is look him up.

Semper Fi

 

[griffin]

Okay yoohoo thats ONE unit saying they would fire on those who presented a hostile act on them man to man if you can tell me if someone raised a gun at you and you had yours you wouldnt shoot?

There would be no one raising a gun to them if they weren't performing acts against the Constitution in the first place. Wouldn't you agree?

And stop saying ONE UNIT. Several of us here have shown you repeatedly US military units being used against US citizens, killing and wounding them, including women and children. Read your history.

I think it's easier for law enforcement to refuse an order than the military. The .gov owns you and can put you in prison or make your life hard. Cops can just quit if they have to, or have their union stand up for them for refusing an order.

the police are confiscating weapons not the national guard who were acting in a capacity for the state not the federal government.

Actually the Army National Guard did confiscate firearms during Katrina. Do your homework. Even watch the video. Army National Guard. In fact, NG units from other states were brought in to assist. And to their credit, some out of state NG members refused. Others did not.

The National Guard is really part of the US Department of Defense. Yes, state guard units normally answer to the governor, but the Constitution of the United States specifically charges the National Guard with dual federal and state missions. In fact, the National Guard is the only United States federal military force empowered to function in a state status. Both the president and the congress can federalize them. And because the (liberal Democrat) governor of Louisiana totally f'ed it up after Katrina, Congress changed the law to make federalizing them easier. Thanks, Kathleen Blanco, for single-handedly being responsible for losing more state control to the feds.

those cops and military in that video have the right to defend yourself.

Huh?

 

[griffin]

one word Mattis if you dont know who that is look him up.

We know who Mattis is. He said, "It's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."

 

[FortWayneGunfighter]

"You are part of the world's most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon."

he also said this and many other things point is Mattis would not let our Corps name be tainted with US blood.

 

[griffin]

Care to address my previous post?

 

[IndyDave1776]

I would suggest that this is an impasse which cannot be resolved. Ripper has complete confidence that the Corps he knows would never do such a thing and Griffin is satisfied that this represents too small a sample from the Corps and/or other branches of the military. I would conclude that this argument cannot be settled this side of the SHTF, a case can be built either way, and that this can create an unnecessary wedge among people who otherwise could happily coexist. I will leave my position with the notion that in most cases lacking solid proof of guilt it works to trust everyone but still cut the cards.

 

[griffin]

I would suggest that this is an impasse which cannot be resolved.

You're no fun.

 

[Grunt]

Yes.

There's even a youtube video with IN guardsmen saying they will.

Fricking pogues. Not you, the guardsmen.

 

[CVMA544]

I can only speak from my experiences and from service members I know, nothing meant to insult anyone, however, in my experience, I think the more time and closer to the pointy end of the spear a service member has spent the less likely they will be to blindly follow an order like the one discussed.

After having to deal with stupid ROE's they will stop and think before charging out blindly knowing sometimes those above them (Meaning not anywhere near the field of battle) don't always know what they are doing or what is really goin on and that things are being run from hundreds if not thousands of miles away.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I am thankful for those who take the oath for what it is, to uphold the Constitution, hence final loyalty to the republic and not scoundrels abusing position. I hope that should it become an issue that they are in the majority.