Is .380 powerful enough for defensive carry?

[VN Vet]

I have done so in the past and still often do. While not my primary carry, the Kahr K40 does that, the Colt Mustang is not far away.

 

[ru44mag]

I have pretty much switched over to 9mm or 38 +p, but still occationally carry my LCP or my P238. I know some think it is stupid, but I alternate FMJ and either Federal Hydro shocks or Hornady CD/Zombie max. And always carry an extra mag...or 2.

 

[Hoosierman]

I realize the FBI needs 12" of penetration, but I wonder if the standard is a bit much for civilian carry? If I have to use my gun, and have a through and through that hits someone else, i'll be strung up. 17 inches of penetration IS going to be a through and through in most defense situations, IE: the perp is facing you. I'm fairly certain 9" of penetration is plenty enough to reach vitals.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm fairly certain 9" of penetration is plenty enough to reach vitals.

If everything is perfect.
If it doesn't hit a bone.
If it isn't deflected before or after entering the body.
If it isn't having to go through an arm first before entering the chest.

Etc. etc.

Ballistic gel has its place, don't get me wrong, but it simulates a near perfect scenario. A soft tissue strike and zero deflection angle and typically with no intermediate barrier or some cloth draped in the front of it. That's why the inches to reach vitals is padded a bit, to account for the perfect test vs the imperfect world.

The .380 has some power behind it, although it is the smallest caliber I would personally recommend. I've seen it go through and through a fat guy's torso and keep on trucking through drywall and I've seen it break a femur into 3 pieces, so its got some punch to it up close and personal.

 

[Hoosierman]

If everything is perfect.
If it doesn't hit a bone.
If it isn't deflected before or after entering the body.
If it isn't having to go through an arm first before entering the chest.

I understand that it's not a perfect world, but in my case, and i'm not a super skinny guy, my heart is in the neighborhood of 4" from my chest. Even hitting bone, that .380 hp would get the job done. I'm not arguing, just playing devils advocate. If you shoot a guy and he's not facing you straight on, you're gonna have a tough time of making a self defense claim anyways.

 

[Bennettjh]

Excellent video, very informative, thank you for making/posting. I carry FMJ in my EDC gun(s).

 

[LonSch]

Great vid. I carry a .380 sometimes also. I have heard some people alternating FMJ and hollow points in their magazine.

 

[Ricnzak]

Great timing. I just picked up a 380 for a pocket gun. Thank you.

 

[jbrownrfn]

Wow looks like ill be saving my cheap ammo for defense and shooting up the pricey stuff at the range...

 

[HoughMade]

I hope all the people saying they carry FMJ for self-defense are speaking specifically about the .380.

 

[Hohn]

Let's hope so.

I think BBI's point is a strong one-- that gelatin is rather optimistic in terms of what might happen. I personally prefer more like 14" to 16" in gelatin for penetration.

It's rare for handgun rounds to through-and-through, they just don't have that much energy to make it all the way.

Skin is also much harder to penetrate on exit than on entry-- roughly equivalent to another 4" of muscle.

My reckoning is that I need to be able to penetrate even an oblique or awkward angle through even a very large person. That might mean 18" of actual tissue.

Never mind the effects of bone that make it even harder.

The FBI tests I've read have argued that more expansion is a good thing ONLY once you have sufficient penetration. How much is sufficient? They say 12" I prefer a little more. I find teh FBI's reasoning to be persuasive.

I'm recalling the FBI report on the PA shooting where the perp took several 180gr Gold Dots from a duty weapon and didn't go down, and none of them were through and through on the torso. There was actually a pretty remarkable LACK of penetration for a 180g .40 cal.

See the file here, if you don't remember it.

Like Houghmade, I've adopted TNoutdoors9's Youtube tests as my primary reference for gel testing. I don't believe his tests are gospel, but I don't think they are good comparisons relative to each other.

I'm not a fan of several of the super-expanding loads because I think many of them trade off too much expansion.

JMO

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I understand that it's not a perfect world, but in my case, and i'm not a super skinny guy, my heart is in the neighborhood of 4" from my chest. Even hitting bone, that .380 hp would get the job done. I'm not arguing, just playing devils advocate. If you shoot a guy and he's not facing you straight on, you're gonna have a tough time of making a self defense claim anyways.

So if I'm standing bladed toward you, a self defense claim is now harder to make? The .380 may get the job done, it may not. You just have a lot less room for error than you do with larger calibers, that's all.