Is Appendix faster

[rhino]

What about at bad breath distance? Is appendix or 3:00 carry easier to block or fowl the draw of an adversary?

Datum: Craig Douglas carries in appendixish position.

 

[stoneytoney]

Appendix is faster but your jean size, belt, and clips have to be in sync at all times. Sitting and getting up without adjusting your pants in public needs to happen, and that's where I struggle. Before I get in the car I lift my pants up to my belly button to prevent the barrel digging in my sides. Once this is accomplished it's comfortable for long commutes, but not more comfortable than behind the hip. BUT you get to your gun faster while driving and carrying AIWB. I find it just lifting the front of my shirt WAY easier than grabbing somewhere under my arm pit and hope to get a good grasp on my shirt in order to present. Especially in the winter time with thicker clothes. I wear a hoody and a coat on real cold days and damn near impossible to get to my firearm if it's carried behind the hip.

 

[Jackson]

What about at bad breath distance? Is appendix or 3:00 carry easier to block or fowl the draw of an adversary?

How many arms can reach it? Where are your arms stronger and more dexterous? Which position keeps your hips and shoulders square to generate or resist force?

The only way to know how it works for you is to test it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Or... Maybe a hardened criminal sees the appendix position the same way because that's how criminals carry? Maybe not? Just some thoughts.

A lot of criminals carry IWB with no holster (and shoot themselves in the groin on occasion), and there's no other reason to reach for your belt buckle. I think you can still accomplish it, but it increases the difficulty IMO.

What about at bad breath distance? Is appendix or 3:00 carry easier to block or fowl the draw of an adversary?

Datum: Craig Douglas carries in appendixish position.

Beat me to it. Depends on training and experience. Douglas' gun retention approach is *very* good, significantly better than anything I've learned elsewhere. The price of admission was worth it just for that. He teaches a different method for appendix vs strong side, and they both worked for the people.

Coach: I think from a pure mechanical "potential", appendix is marginally faster. The line the gun takes from holster to presentation is shorter, so if all else is equal you'd shave a sliver of time off there. It's possibly closer to your hands as well, from a natural start position. As you know, I generally use a sport coat as a cover garment. For strong side I have to move my hand toward the center line, reverse direction, then go to my gun, establish grip, then reverse direction again. Appendix eliminates one of those lines and two direction changes. I just reach to center line then up. So, for my style of dress another sliver of time. Someone who's jerking up a polo won't have the change of direction, but the strong hand must wait while the support hand clears. With appendix, both hands are moving to the center at the same time. A smaller savings, but another sliver.

Better is a different question, and depends on your goals, dress, and likely encounters. Appendix doesn't conceal as well for how I usually dress. I have the need to occasionally reholster quickly as the situation changes from a shoot to no-shoot, and many of the safety steps taken for appendix holstering aren't possible in that situation. As you know, I'm also a fan of the disguised draw any many potential situations, and strong side is normally easier to accomplish that with. If I were a bank manager where I might be marched somewhere with a gunman at my back, that could reverse, but for what I'm likely to have to do it holds true. For me, the benefits of appendix don't outweigh its weaknesses. If I were going to carry appendix, I wouldn't carry something without an external hammer I could thumb during no-look holstering. Admin holstering is pretty easy to do safely. Holstering to get your hands empty when Suicidal Joe has dropped the knife but is advancing on you with empty hands...less so. Obviously not a scenario everyone has to be particularly concerned with, but a viable one for me, and another reason I stick with strong side.

 

[Double T]

The only place appendix should have an advantage is a hands up, feinting compliance start. Otherwise they should be pretty close to dead even from the hands to the sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6BfRc8s8ac

That video kind of gives me that support.

 

[ghuns]

Is it appendix carry that makes Jim Zubiena so fast? Or, is it those sweet, amber aviators?

[video=facebook_share;1659979644262104]https://www.facebook.com/practicaldefensetactics/videos/1659979644262104/[/video]

 

[cedartop]

It would be way slower for me. Id have to sweep my shirt to pull it up with one hand, take the other hand and lift my gut, then drop the shirt and draw.

You might be surprised. The instructor in a class I took this last weekend was 280 lbs. With a hoodie as concealment he was hitting sub 1 second draws to a a/c steel at 10 yards reliably. That was hands starting from the fence.

 

[cedartop]

The only place appendix should have an advantage is a hands up, feinting compliance start. Otherwise they should be pretty close to dead even from the hands to the sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6BfRc8s8ac

That video kind of gives me that support.

Not sure how that video gives you support as they plainly state appendix was faster. I will say, that was some very sloppy gunhandling and I am surprised there were no ND's.

 

[cedartop]

IME when comparing apples to apples, appendix is faster. Looking at a wide variety of students, when using similar concealment, e.g. closed front, appendix is almost universally faster. Probably in the neighborhood of a couple of tenths. When comparing AIWB closed front to OWB open front it is typically a wash. It is for me. Of course as has been mentioned speed doesn't tell the whole story. I don't carry appendix because it is faster. I carry that way because it allows me to go well armed in my daily life where another method would not, or at the very least I would have to go to a less accessible method like pocket carry or belly band. Those are not options I care to consider.

 

[rhino]

Is it appendix carry that makes Jim Zubiena so fast? Or, is it those sweet, amber aviators?

Jim Zubiena was that fast because he was a badass! Plus, a lot of IPSC shooters in his day (pre-USPSA) wore their holsters in the appendix position and Bruce Nelson design his IWB holster to be carried there, so he probably practiced that draw many, many times.

You might be surprised. The instructor in a class I took this last weekend was 280 lbs. With a hoodie as concealment he was hitting sub 1 second draws to a a/c steel at 10 yards reliably. That was hands starting from the fence.

Sounds like a cheatin' practicer!

Man, I need to practice.

 

[Double T]

Not sure how that video gives you support as they plainly state appendix was faster. I will say, that was some very sloppy gunhandling and I am surprised there were no ND's.

The feinting hand pose. To truly test the speed, both should be tested. I know there was suuuuper sloppy handling, but it was one of the better "tests" that I've seen, handling aside.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The feinting hand pose. To truly test the speed, both should be tested. I know there was suuuuper sloppy handling, but it was one of the better "tests" that I've seen, handling aside.

Honestly, does it matter what other people's results are...particularly people who aren't at your skill level? Get a target, timer, and realistic drills and see what works for you.

 

[bwframe]

What about the blowing off of your twig and berries part of the deal?

 

[Double T]

What about the blowing off of your twig and berries part of the deal?

Alternative birth control.

 

[cayce]

In a car with a seatbelt on? NO WAY. In a car ankle holster or weapon beside seat.

 

[chezuki]

In a car with a seatbelt on? NO WAY. In a car ankle holster or weapon beside seat.

I have zero trouble drawing/firing from appendix while seated and buckled.

IMO, It’s one of the many advantages of AIWB carry.

 

[Double T]

I can draw from 4 as well while buckled in.

 

[JollyMon]

I prefer Appendix. I find that clearing of garments is more natural for me in that position, which in turns makes me feel like I am faster. However, I also feel that unless you have an extremely comfortable holster it can be the biggest pain.

My favorite holster is a crossbreed appendix for my wimpy P238, which is my normal carry on most days. From long drives to hikes, It has never bothered me.

Contrast that with some of my kydex appendix holsters and it is digging into your leg, gut, etc.. YMMV

 

[Vigilant]

In a car with a seatbelt on? NO WAY. In a car ankle holster or weapon beside seat.

Weapon beside you on the seat or under your leg in the car is a fairly bad idea, panic braking, hard maneuvering, and that gun may not still be there. I think the Miami FBI shootout had a gun skittering across the floorboard unusable at the time. AIWB makes for an easy draw while seatbelted if you adjust accordingly.

 

[Jackson]

In a car with a seatbelt on? NO WAY. In a car ankle holster or weapon beside seat.

Off body carry in the car makes it harder to do one of the most important things you can do: get out of the car (assuming you can't just drive away). Stuffing a gun beside the seat not firmly fixed to the car also leaves open the potential for the gun to end up somewhere else when you need it. I'd rather have the gun on my hip than tucked between my seats or under my thigh or any of the other popular car carry spots. It's also in the same place I always keep it for training consistency and so I don't forget where to reach when I really need it.