Is is time to topple Syria?

[hooky]

I promise I'm not singling you out this evening. Just in case it seems that way. You just make interesting points.

Completely agree about the Russia/China influence thing. Attempting to negotiate with them for any reason in any way is just an exercise in futility.

But the part about waiting until it's our business is historically risky too. At the risk of using the tired WW2 example, look what happens when you MYOB and essentially ignore the threat.

I'd be willing to risk waiting on the chance that the need to deal with it might never arise IF, and ONLY IF, we actually dealt with it like Attila. But since that will NEVER happen, I'd prefer to be a little more proactive in determine our fate.

Not saying Syria is one we act on. Just arguing for a more measured approach to foreign action rather than a default "not my problem (yet)" response.

If we were going to support a popular uprising, it should have been in Iran. Instead we just sat on our hands and said nothing. POTUS didn't even say we supported them in spirit. Instead we decided to help replace a regime that wasn't giving us any trouble out of fear and another that was loosely defined as an ally. We're active in systematically turning over the middle east to radical islamists while we've sent men and women over there under the guise of spreading democracy.

 

[88GT]

If we were going to support a popular uprising, it should have been in Iran. Instead we just sat on our hands and said nothing. POTUS didn't even say we supported them in spirit. Instead we decided to help replace a regime that wasn't giving us any trouble out of fear and another that was loosely defined as an ally. We're active in systematically turning over the middle east to radical islamists while we've sent men and women over there under the guise of spreading democracy.

I agree. But I'm not sure why you quoted my post.

 

[hooky]

I agree. But I'm not sure why you quoted my post.

I have a soft spot in my heart for you after putting me in touch with Richie.

Actually the measured approach comment you made was what triggered my thought and was the reason I quoted you.

 

[88GT]

I have a soft spot in my heart for you after putting me in touch with Richie.

Actually the measured approach comment you made was what triggered my thought and was the reason I quoted you.

Ah, gotcha. I wasn't sure if it was an agreement or a rebuttal. Couldn't quite tell. He (Obama) definitely has shown an affinity for supporting the power position.

 

[cobber]

As far as nukes go? We've become the proverbial paper tiger. We aren't going to do anything about it until they detonate one in New York Harbor or Austin, TX, and then we'll pretend we don't know who it was. The Iranians will say we have to prove it, and the rest of the world will go along with that, and they'll all dance in the streets over several million dead Americans. The only thing that can stop them is genocide, and we aren't willing to do that as a country.

I would not agree. A nuclear attack on America would be a whole new ball game. It would be practically impossible to justify NOT retaliating under the circumstances, and I don't think the American people would be worrying about collateral damage at that point, or our image in the world.

If we identified Iran as the aggressor in such an attack (to our own and not the UN's satisfaction), I suspect within 24 hours their military and political infrastructure would be vapor.

 

[88GT]

I would not agree. A nuclear attack on America would be a whole new ball game. It would be practically impossible to justify NOT retaliating under the circumstances, and I don't think the American people would be worrying about collateral damage at that point, or our image in the world.

If we identified Iran as the aggressor in such an attack (to our own and not the UN's satisfaction), I suspect within 24 hours their military and political infrastructure would be vapor.

You think Obama would do it?

Not snarky. Serious question. On the whole I agree. But there's a part of me that finds it a little too easy to imagine him NOT doing a darn thing. I honestly don't know. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting money on it either way with him.

 

[jbombelli]

I would not agree. A nuclear attack on America would be a whole new ball game. It would be practically impossible to justify NOT retaliating under the circumstances, and I don't think the American people would be worrying about collateral damage at that point, or our image in the world.

If we identified Iran as the aggressor in such an attack (to our own and not the UN's satisfaction), I suspect within 24 hours their military and political infrastructure would be vapor.

Iran would deny it. And if we nuked Iran in retaliation, I flat guarantee you we would have to nuke Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Algeria, Sudan, Indonesia, and everywhere else that's got a large Muslim population. Otherwise Islam worldwide will rise up and attack us. Count on it. THAT'S why we won't do it. We would have to nuke many countries that had nothing to do with it in order to prevent them from coming at us after we vaporized a few million of their brothers.

 

[ghunter]

If Iran tries to close the Strait of Hormuz, then we have to jump in. Otherwise, we should stay out of it and drill our own oil. We should drill our own oil anyway.

 

[NYFelon]

Iran would deny it. And if we nuked Iran in retaliation, I flat guarantee you we would have to nuke Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Algeria, Sudan, Indonesia, and everywhere else that's got a large Muslim population. Otherwise Islam worldwide will rise up and attack us. Count on it. THAT'S why we won't do it. We would have to nuke many countries that had nothing to do with it in order to prevent them from coming at us after we vaporized a few million of their brothers.

So, what's the downside?

 

[LEaSH]

We wont nuke anyone ever again preemptively, unfortunately.

I say unfortunately only because...

 

[netsecurity]

I couldn't see Hezbollah getting a foothold in a post Assad Syria. They've been very vocal in their support of Assad and, if the Free Syrian forces win out in the end Hezbollah will find themselves on the out, as will Iran. They're much more likely to go the route of Turkey and ally with them than with the Iranian backed groups.

Hezbollah/Iran is who is supposed to be fighting along side Assad soon. That's the trigger for making me go from anti to pro involvement. I don't think the other guy read much of this thread or the link before posting. So if we got involved and won, Hezbollah and Iranian influence would be hugely unpopular, just like Assad himself. That's precisely why it is a win/win for us, we get rid of Assad, and poke Iran in the eye simultaneously.

 

[PINski1015]

So, what's the downside?

Millions dead. The decision to eliminate that many people so thoroughly and effectively shouldn't be taken lightly or used with reckless abandon.

 

[rambone]

A nuclear attack on America would be a whole new ball game.

Any illusions of American freedom or adherence to the constitution would disappear immediately.

 

[Jim Duncan]

We wont nuke anyone ever again preemptively, unfortunately.

When have we ever used nuclear weapons preemptively?

 

[cobber]

You think Obama would do it?

Not snarky. Serious question. On the whole I agree. But there's a part of me that finds it a little too easy to imagine him NOT doing a darn thing. I honestly don't know. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting money on it either way with him.

It might take BHO more than 24 hours to respond, but I don't think a president could afford not to act, taking into account both domestic and international pressure. And I'm not sure that lots of nations would be celebrating letting the atomic genie out of the bottle again, unless they had clean hands in the whole affair.

Iran would deny it. And if we nuked Iran in retaliation, I flat guarantee you we would have to nuke Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Algeria, Sudan, Indonesia, and everywhere else that's got a large Muslim population. Otherwise Islam worldwide will rise up and attack us. Count on it. THAT'S why we won't do it. We would have to nuke many countries that had nothing to do with it in order to prevent them from coming at us after we vaporized a few million of their brothers.

Whoever was behind it would NOT be able to keep their mouths shut. "Islam worldwide" is not going to want to be associated with an act like this. Terror groups maybe, but I would bet among all the Western intel agencies we would know in short order what happened and who actually provided the bomb-making materials.

We would not then be staging an Iraqi-freedom type mission, but simply destroying the C3 capacities of any governments complicit in the attack. This would not even require nuclear weapons, but it would need to be done ASAP.

Any illusions of American freedom or adherence to the constitution would disappear immediately.

As in declared war? Can you imagine the Congress coming to a rapid decision on a matter like this? We would probably get a new slew of 'security' legislation, and 'Great Society-esque' entitlements to boot. And calls for tolerance, etc.

 

[Rocket]

Every time America puts our muscle into the sand box it turns out bad. Almost every leader the CIA has backed (anywhere) and helped to take over a country comes back to haunt us. When will we learn. We need to stop exerting our values to a land that doesn't share them. That entire region has been at war since time was recorded. We need to keep out of it. As I understand it. When to a large portion of combatants and people in general there believe, to die for the cause is to gain paradise. We can NOT fight that. Heck we can not understand that. We need to stop trying. It is ONLY GREED that keeps us fighting there. It has nothing to do with humanity.

We need to drill our own oil. Let them fight amongst themselves and let God sort it out. The main reason that we are so hated over there is we we do not mind our own business.

 

[jbombelli]

Whoever was behind it would NOT be able to keep their mouths shut. "Islam worldwide" is not going to want to be associated with an act like this.

They won't want to be associated with it. But our vaporizing millions of Muslims in retaliation, including women and children who had nothing specific to do with it, will override their desire to not be associated with it. They'll say we killed millions and millions of Muslims who were completely innocent, including women and children.

And sure, they won't keep their mouths shut, but they won't admit it either. They'll smugly gloat about how their true brothers brought us what we deserved. Nothing more. Just like Bin Laden never *actually admitted* in so many words to being behind 9/11. Just like Ahmedinejad is always talking about how Israel needs to be destroyed, but never actually threatens them in so many words.

 

[Deadly Z Driver]

We have no money.

Second this, we have the issues of our own to worry about right now.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

So they can try to export/force their way of life on us. Sounds like a strategy.

How do you figure that ?

The only way I see that happening is our politicians allowing them and other immigrants to come here and take over our cities like they're slowly doing .

How many of our neighboring countries are they working with , occupying and setting up bases in ?

In my time , other than that , the ONLY TIME I ever seen a middle eastern soldier was the ones we were training through our military .

How many of the world's children do you think have seen American soldiers ?

Why do you think that is ? Simple !

Some rich prick decides he needs to be richer and decides if he can't buy another countries natural resources "at a steal " he can grease some shady politician , next thing you know our dumb ass's are half way around the world kicking somebody's ass .

And for what ?

Is it likely that all these wars actually benefit the American people OR , is it MORE likely that the wars benefit corporations ?

War is a money making machine that rarely benefits the average citizen yet the average American citizen seems too ****ing stupid to realize that WE HOLD THE POWER .

"Wait , what power ?" Never mind American idiot is on .

 

[cesna250]

We should only be involved if Israel is involved.. Just sayin'