Is it time to break up Washington, DC?

[Colt1860]

The real way to disperse power and the way it was originally intended was for the states to have more power because they are closer to the people and more accountable. So instead of moving agencies around they should eliminate them and give the responsiblities back to the states. Of course it not that easy, Other things such as federal taxes would need to be reduced to allow the state to tax to fund the increased responsibilities. Or they could just let the private sector sort them out depending on the wishes of the people of the state.

 

[jamil]

The real way to disperse power and the way it was originally intended was for the states to have more power because they are closer to the people and more accountable. So instead of moving agencies around they should eliminate them and give the responsiblities back to the states. Of course it not that easy, Other things such as federal taxes would need to be reduced to allow the state to tax to fund the increased responsibilities. Or they could just let the private sector sort them out depending on the wishes of the people of the state.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The real way to disperse power and the way it was originally intended was for the states to have more power because they are closer to the people and more accountable. So instead of moving agencies around they should eliminate them and give the responsiblities back to the states. Of course it not that easy, Other things such as federal taxes would need to be reduced to allow the state to tax to fund the increased responsibilities. Or they could just let the private sector sort them out depending on the wishes of the people of the state.

Yep. We saw the meltdown that occurred when they did something relatively minor like reducing the size of a couple of "monuments" and ended net "neutrality ". Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if they actually ended the department of energy, education, etc and gave the states the option of continuing them, if they wished? It. Would. Be. Epic.

 

[jamil]

Yep. We saw the meltdown that occurred when they did something relatively minor like reducing the size of a couple of "monuments" and ended net "neutrality ". Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if they actually ended the department of energy, education, etc and gave the states the option of continuing them, if they wished? It. Would. Be. Epic.

Of course that was all hyperbole because the wailers and gnashers of teeth don't like the person doing the cuts. But oh yeah. If any of the executive agencies were eliminated ALL the cronies, Republicans and Democrats would just explode.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Of course that was all hyperbole because the wailers and gnashers of teeth don't like the person doing the cuts. But oh yeah. If any of the executive agencies were eliminated ALL the cronies, Republicans and Democrats would just explode.

For every program, department, and office there's a constituency that likes, is dependent on, or demands it...regardless of party.

 

[Phase2]

Reviving an old topic. This looks like another campaign promise that Trump is in the process of keeping.

USDA staffers quit en masse as Trump administration eyes moving offices out of DC

Perdue said in a statement to Fox News that the move was meant “to improve performance and the services these agencies provide.” The secretary of agriculture added that the planned move would bring the department’s scientists closer to “stakeholders” and “customers” such as Midwest farmers.

“It’s been our goal to make USDA the most effective, efficient, and customer-focused department in the entire federal government,” Perdue said. “We don’t undertake these relocations lightly, and we are doing it to improve performance and the services these agencies provide.”

Downsizing government, discarding swamp creatures, leaving the DC bubble and becoming more responsive to those being regulated. This is great news.

Edit: The USDA hasn't selected their new location yet, but they are down to three locations, one of which is Indiana. Interesting...

 

[Ddillard]

It's called federalism. 10th amendment. Need states to step up and start suing .gov

I agree. The States need to assert the true authority by the citizens thereof.

 

[BigRed]

This thread was triggered by two articles that I read recently. I've heard of this concept before, but the time seems to have arrived where it makes sense to get the process started.

Spread the swamp? Trump administration wants to move government offices out of Washington - LA Times
Census Bureau: 5 Richest Counties Are D.C. Suburbs- 9 of the top 20 counties by income are located in the DC area.

It is not the first time that Americans have had to deal with a remote, unaccountable and unresponsive government. There are many reasons why breaking up Washington DC would be beneficial including:

• More equitable distribution of money and power around the US.
• We currently have bureaucracies with all of the power of the legislative, judicial and executive branches merged in a single organization (ex: EPA), but are located thousands of miles from the people that they most affect. Moving them should create better accountability and responsiveness to those affected.
• Concentrating US power structures into a single, few square mile area makes the Federal government more vulnerable to attack or disruption. This setup is a relic of the 18th century when it was created. Distributed structures are much more resilient and with the growth of Internet communications channels makes a more flexible organization very viable.
• Access to a more diverse population of workers than those living or attracted to the DC area.
• Lowering the cost of government by moving workers to lower cost-of-living areas.

Some examples of how Washington departments/bureaucracies could be distributed:

• Dept of the Interior- Move them out west, possibly Utah or Nevada, where they control more than half of the land.
• Dept of Energy- Louisiana, Alaska or Wyoming, where major oil and coal industries are located.
• Housing and Urban Development- Baltimore or Detroit, where real urban revival is most urgently needed
• Dept of Agriculture- Iowa or Nebraska- some of the largest agricultural production states
• Departments with no obvious regional affiliation- move them to depressed areas that could use the economic boost.

This would obviously take years to implement, but would be a worthwhile change to create a more accountable, flexible and just federal government for the US. There would be plenty of bureaucrats who would push back against such a move, but being located among those they are impacting would combat the power-seeking and non-accountability described by Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy.

I would rather cut to the chase and dissolve the central state.

 

[Leadeye]

So dc staffers don't like the idea of being in fly over country. No problem, they'll find good paying jobs doing some other unrelated work for the deep state.

 

[jamil]

So dc staffers don't like the idea of being in fly over country. No problem, they'll find good paying jobs doing some other unrelated work for the deep state.

I like the idea of decentralizing DC. Trump should relocate a bunch of agencies to Red states. Be a good way to gut the government without firing people. They'll just want to quit.

 

[Phase2]

Update: Sonny Perdue (Secretary of Agriculture) has selected the Kansas City region to be the new home for two USDA divisions.

USDA conducted a Cost Benefit Analysis and conservative estimates show a savings of nearly $300 million nominally over a 15-year lease term on employment costs and rent or about $20 million per year, which will allow more funding for research of critical needs like rural prosperity and agricultural competitiveness, and for programs and employees to be retained in the long run, even in the face of tightening budgets.

A government department looking for ways to save money? The article also talks about other benefits from being located closer to those affected. Seems like this move might check off all five benefit boxes from my OP. These things take time, but I definitely like the direction.

I like the idea of decentralizing DC. Trump should relocate a bunch of agencies to Red states. Be a good way to gut the government without firing people. They'll just want to quit.

This is a sixth benefit, but I think it falls under "diversity". Unlike how the left defines it, moving away from the east coast leftist/elitist-centered work force, a percentage of which will certainly quit over this move, the article mentions bringing in more mid-western land-grant university people who have more of a stake in agriculture rather than government.

 

[KellyinAvon]

USDA is better off being in an area with wheat and sunflowers as far as you can see than in a partisan swamp filled with people who think steak comes from the menu? Whoda thunk it!!

 

[Phase2]

Two updates:

1- Update on USDA move to Kansas City- 37% of the current employees have accepted the reassignment to Kansas City. The rest have been effectively "drained" and will be replaced as needed.

2- Trump administration says it’s moving Bureau of Land Management headquarters to Colorado to cut costs and improve decisions- The BLM controls a lot of land in the west and this will move them closer to their primary constituents.

I am truly amazed at the progress that Pres. Trump has been making on this direction to improve government by reducing long-term costs, making government closer and more accountable to those they most impact and transitioning government to a more diverse workforce than those that populate the Washington DC area. I can't think of a single other possible president who would have even tried this. Thanks Mr. Trump.

 

[Thor]

These are great moves...though I might have chosen Utah for BLM.

The only thing that he could do better is what Rick Perry suggested...close 'em down. When he was drugged up from back surgery and couldn't think of the specific agencies he wanted to shut down he should have said "all of them if they can't justify their value to the American people".

 

[harmonyaudio]

Yeah, if the current state of Congress does not tell us that it is completely dysfunctional and needs desparately to be completely overhauled, I dont know what will.

 

[Phase2]

These guys do an excellent job addressing this topic (the BLM move to Colorado):

[video=youtube;pEIzqfIMhB4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEIzqfIMhB4[/video]

 

[jamil]

Two updates:

1- Update on USDA move to Kansas City- 37% of the current employees have accepted the reassignment to Kansas City. The rest have been effectively "drained" and will be replaced as needed.

2- Trump administration says it’s moving Bureau of Land Management headquarters to Colorado to cut costs and improve decisions- The BLM controls a lot of land in the west and this will move them closer to their primary constituents.

I am truly amazed at the progress that Pres. Trump has been making on this direction to improve government by reducing long-term costs, making government closer and more accountable to those they most impact and transitioning government to a more diverse workforce than those that populate the Washington DC area. I can't think of a single other possible president who would have even tried this. Thanks Mr. Trump.

It’s worth mentioning the other side of this. The opposition to this says the constituents of these agencies being relocated aren’t farmers or users of government lands. Those are the constituents of elected representatives, not the bureaucrats. The bureaucrats belong in Washington because it’s congress that they need to be close to, not farmers or land users, or whatever the bureaucracy is.

I think it’s bull**** though. They manage the policies that affect the people. If the proximity were only dependent on access to the beltway, there’d not be local offices. Those bureaucracies also interact with the people regulate. So which is more efficient?

I’m fine with moving the HQs. Let the coastal elites occupying the cushy Washington jobs, too woke to condescend to flyover country, find new jobs. I hear Bernie may have some staffer jobs opening up. Pay kinds sucks. But you get to be Bernie’s bestie.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah, if the current state of Congress does not tell us that it is completely dysfunctional and needs desparately to be completely overhauled, I dont know what will.

The need for these people is no longer paramount. They have exceeded the usefulness we require. What new laws do we need. Enforce the ones in place. Everything is covered. All they need to do is show up a bit here and there and make sure the infrastructure is up and running but hey have no freaking idea what that even is anymore.

 

[Alamo]

Two updates:

1- Update on USDA move to Kansas City- 37% of the current employees have accepted the reassignment to Kansas City. The rest have been effectively "drained" and will be replaced as needed.

2- Trump administration says it’s moving Bureau of Land Management headquarters to Colorado to cut costs and improve decisions- The BLM controls a lot of land in the west and this will move them closer to their primary constituents.

I am truly amazed at the progress that Pres. Trump has been making on this direction to improve government by reducing long-term costs, making government closer and more accountable to those they most impact and transitioning government to a more diverse workforce than those that populate the Washington DC area. I can't think of a single other possible president who would have even tried this. Thanks Mr. Trump.

This is a beautiful time to downsize. It's always hard for the government to cut positions when people are sitting in them (BTDT), but when nearly 60% of the positions are not filled, it's meat cleaver time.


If Trump can keep this up, it is going to get real interesting in the DC area. Civil Service rules require that if someone is displaced because their position is cut, then if at all possible he or she must be moved to an open position elsewhere requiring similar skills. And the personnel types can get very liberal about assessing "similar skills." Generally when you have an open position, the supervisor advertises that position throughout the government and possibly publicly, down-selects via resume to at least three candidates, and then forms a small committee to personally interview the candidates to choose the best fit. BUT -- if there is a civil servant somewhere whose position has been eliminated and his skills on paper somewhat overlap with the position description for the open slot...BOOM - the open slot gets filled. The supervisor gets no say in accepting the "new guy." I have been the "beneficiary" of this methodology. It is not uncommon that the reason the civil servant's position was cut was because it was the only way they could get rid of him. This is how I received a real gem of a civil servant, but that's another story.

With people refusing to move to the hinterlands, there are going to be great herds of "homeless" civil servants roaming the DC/Northern Virginia area snapping up any and all open positions. If Trump can keep this up, there will be hiring freezes instituted until all the "homeless" are found positions, retired, or bought off with some kind of early retirement or separation plan that pays bonuses to leave. Supervisors who now have open positions or foresee one opening up are going to be furiously trying to fill them, or maybe even eliminate them, before the freezes hit. As time goes on and open positions are filled, it's going to be harder and harder to make a fit, so I expect to see early retirement plans and separation bonuses come forth -- but only if Trump gets re-elected. People will try to slow roll all this waiting for 2020 and hoping a Democrat, any Democrat gets elected.

Also, some excessed civil servants may interview with manpower contractors that service their agencies, and the remnants of the agencies left in DC will try to re-create their local kingdoms with contractor personnel instead of civil servants. The fly in the ointment for the civil servants is the contractors are generally less sympathetic to underperforming personnel, and less generous with bennies and pay, and when they fail to get a contract, everyone gets let go, and there is a scramble to get hired by the contractor that did win the manpower contract.

 

[Phase2]

Cloned from another thread:

Bill to move most federal agencies out of DC...

The Helping Infrastructure Restore the Economy (HIRE) Act (S. 2672) would move 90% of the positions in 10 executive departments to the following states:

Department	State
Department of Agriculture	Missouri
Department of Commerce	Pennsylvania
Department of Education	Tennessee
Department of Energy	Kentucky
Health and Human Services	Indiana
Housing and Urban Development	Ohio
Department of Interior	New Mexico
Department of Labor	West Virginia
Department of Transportation	Michigan
Veterans Affairs	South Carolina

The legislation also requires the federal government to move most non-department agencies to economically distressed regions that have a geographic nexus to the agency.

https://www.fedsmith.com/2019/10/23/senators-want-move-most-federal-agencies-out-dc/