Is Musk a con artist?

[churchmouse]

Yep. We have to pay and pay and pay for all that stuff whether we asked for it or not.

When was the last time anyone reading this paid cash for a new vehicle?

1985 for me. Brand new Monti Carlo S/S

 

[BugI02]

Tesla is one of my customers. That doesn't make me an expert in all things Tesla or Elon Musk. But having spent my life in the automotive industry I know a thing or two.

The launch difficulties he's having with the Model 3 were foreseen over a year ago when he started accepting deposits. It's not uncommon for new vehicle launches to get pushed out and/or start slower than expected. It's happening to him and it's happened to virtually all of the automakers that have been in business since Ford busted out the door to get his first car out.

The roadster he brought out this week was just a teaser. It's not a model that is launched or will be anytime soon. He is just showing the world that electrification of the automobile is viable.

Like other's have said, he is a visionary, has deeeeeep pockets and knows how to make money.

Oh, those of us who think cars are expensive need to spend some time around the Tier 1, 2 and 3 automotive companies and see what it takes to get that shiny new car to your driveway. We make headlamp assemblies that have 6-7 lens, brackets, light blockers, etc. and the cost to make just one of those lens is astonishing.

So is the cost of replacing one!

 

[BugI02]

You do realize Tesla isn't his only company, nor the source of his income...right?

So, Paypal and SpaceX. In one way, I get what you're saying. In another, I wonder; would you want to by a car designed and built by eBay or Morton-Thiokol just because they were successful in their particular niche?

Maglev tube trains running through ultra smooth, partially evacuated tunnels? Still science fiction for decades to come

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So, Paypal and SpaceX. In one way, I get what you're saying. In another, I wonder; would you want to by a car designed and built by eBay or Morton-Thiokol just because they were successful in their particular niche?

Maglev tube trains running through ultra smooth, partially evacuated tunnels? Still science fiction for decades to come

He also does venture capital, real estate, traditional investing, etc. The notion he's "dirty" because Tesla isn't supporting his income is laughable, and that's what I was responding to.

That said...yes. Companies have teams in place and can have multiple competencies. You can buy medical monitoring devices, jet engines, or railroad locomotives from GE, and that's a company that started out on appliances and generation/distribution of electricity. (For now, GE is supposedly selling off their locomotive business as they restructure and downsize). Diversification =/= bad products.

 

[Thor]

Yep. We have to pay and pay and pay for all that stuff whether we asked for it or not.

When was the last time anyone reading this paid cash for a new vehicle?

18 months ago.

The new devices will end Hot Rods though...nobody will be able to fix all that crap and make it work again, let alone perform as well or better.

 

[bwframe]

...When was the last time anyone reading this paid cash for a new vehicle?

18 months ago...

That makes two in recent years. I'm sure there are more, but a lot of folks only know how much the cost of their vehicle is by the monthly payment.

A big trend in one part of my extended family is leasing. All they know about cost/value is based on the payment. In that part of the family, young and old all have leased vehicles. I guess that is what gets a 72 year old woman, living on social security, into a new vehicle the same as her 18 year old granddaughter that's had a job for around a year?

 

[bigbaloo95]

Elon Musk like all high profile ceos has a bit of con artist in him. So did Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. He has to be able to convince people to spend hard earned money on his dreams. There is no guarantee all of these ventures will pan out but I bet if you talk to him for an hour you would be ready to fork over your life savings. Does that make him crooked? No, but if buying a dream always remember buyer beware.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yep. We have to pay and pay and pay for all that stuff whether we asked for it or not.

When was the last time anyone reading this paid cash for a new vehicle?

Inflation adjusted:

1976 Ford Pinto sedan (base):$13,317.94
1978 Chevy Chevette (base): $14,272.00

2017 Ford Fiesta (base): $13,660
2017 Chevy Spark (base): $13,875

 

[HoughMade]

Ford and GM seldom have issues with delaying a launch for a car when people have paid deposits because no one is willing to put a deposit down on one years in advance.

He's a smart businessman. No two ways about it.

As for the subsidies...Tesla ain't alone at drinking at the public trough....GM, Chrysler and Ford have all gotten their share of favorable government treatment in one way or another...for nearly 100 years.

 

[HoughMade]

Yep. We have to pay and pay and pay for all that stuff whether we asked for it or not.

When was the last time anyone reading this paid cash for a new vehicle?

New? Not me. That's why I have been without a car payment since 2,000. New car depreciation isn't something I want to "enjoy". I have, however, paid cash for my last 5 vehicles. Wait, I want to be honest. I got cashier's checks for 2 of them and wrote a personal check for 3.

 

[gregkl]

Inflation adjusted:

1976 Ford Pinto sedan (base):$13,317.94
1978 Chevy Chevette (base): $14,272.00

2017 Ford Fiesta (base): $13,660
2017 Chevy Spark (base): $13,875

And look at the difference in content. That is why I am usually amazed at how cheap stuff is nowadays. Not that I can afford "stuff" but that is my issue, not the products.

 

[femurphy77]

Can't see paying the asking price of new vehicles. I've always been able to do pretty good with the used ones, able to ferret out a lemon in every case but one, able to maintain in cross country ready condition at all times and yes pay cash for them. More power to those that yearn for and can afford new, thanks to them I'll be getting a helluva deal on it in a few years without taking the huge hit that depreciation brings.

To be fair though I did consider putting up the coin for a Tesla .

 

[Butch627]

Inflation adjusted:

1976 Ford Pinto sedan (base):$13,317.94
1978 Chevy Chevette (base): $14,272.00

2017 Ford Fiesta (base): $13,660
2017 Chevy Spark (base): $13,875

Back in the 70's a car was considered used up in 10 years and 100k miles. The Chevette was special, the floors rusted out in 2 or 3 years and body shops would weld in entire front floor pans. In those 10 years cars would go through several sets of tires, a few pairs of shocks, a few exhaust systems, front end rebuilds, several brake jobs, and numerous tuneups. Radiators and heater cores seldom lasted 10 years. Throw in a few carb rebuilds also. Oil changes at 2k to 3k were mandatory to reach 100k miles before an engine rebuild was necessary. After 10 years the fenders and rockers would be rusted through. Oh the good old days, they don't make them like they used to.

 

[KMaC]

I haven't seen this posted anywhere on INGO so I thought I would see if people still hold the same opinions of Elon. I think he has lost the confidence of the board. They can't like the wild swings in stock prices over the last month.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...-tweets/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8236d9993e84

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I haven't seen this posted anywhere on INGO so I thought I would see if people still hold the same opinions of Elon. I think he has lost the confidence of the board. They can't like the wild swings in stock prices over the last month.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...-tweets/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8236d9993e84

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break-room/457358-tsla-shares-halted.html

I haven't been following it that closely. I never invested in any of his companies. Outside of my risk profile (things that have a chance to go to zero or to sky rocket make me queasy).

 

[KMaC]

Sorry, I searched but didn't notice that thread.

 

[HoughMade]

Tesla- still not profitable.

Cutting 7 percent of its workforce, trying to get the price of the Model 3 down.

[video=youtube;ms-9Snsaq-w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms-9Snsaq-w[/video]

 

[bwframe]

Teslas are selling like iPhones.

To a small % of elitists who want to flaunt their purchase. That and letting their "business" absorb the poor investment.

 

[indiucky]

 

[gregkl]

I'll probably get a new group of buyers and engineers to work with...again.