Is our training adequate?

[ProLibertate]

I think we can all agree that marksmanship training is essential to firearms ownership, but as the students in the video demonstrate, an active shooter scenario incorporates a lot more factors than a stationary paper target on a controlled range.

I know we all have the "that won't happen to me" mindset from time to time.
Time for some soul searching... Why won't it happen to you?
Is your training adequate?
I'm not posting this link to preach. For the record, I don't like the ambiguously anti-gun tone of the story, but the results are interesting. I'd be interested to hear your feedback after you watch the two-part video.
Sound off!


Part 1: 'If I Only Had a Gun': Click Here for 20/20 Special - ABC News
Part 2: Shooting Under Fire - ABC News

 

[jeremy]

Nah no thanks...

 

[Jay]

I agree that training should occur. I do not agree that training should be a requirement before being allowed to exercise a Constitutional right. Having said that, I've seen some very sad examples of shooting/firearm safety displayed a some very nice ranges.

I think that training should reflect what an individual needs, as opposed to being "sold" a training regimen. Take into consideration a person's age, lifestyle, physical ability, usual activities of daily living, THEN apply appropriate training. Not everyone NEEDS force-on-force, or edged weapons, or run-and-gun training. I'm not saying that training isn't worthwhile, but some training course content is not always appropriate for ALL individuals.

 

[patton487]

I've seen these before. Those video's are the biggest load of anti gun crapola ever made. The whole thing is set up to fail so people will be discouraged about CC.
Nothing about is is real life. Tell me, when will you be wearing a giant helmet to restrict your vision? A long white shirt to your knees to restrict your draw? And when will a bad guy be told in advance who the only person who has a gun in a room of over 30 people is.
You notice that each time the BG goes strait to attack the only one with a gun? What a bunch BS

 

[ProLibertate]

Agreed. Please don't think I'm advocating ANY legal requirements conditional to exercising your Constitutional rights.
That was not my intention.
I DO feel that it's our responsibility as gun owners to ensure that we seek out the knowledge and experience to become an asset and not a liability to society in the event we need to defend ourselves or others.

The girl that flagged her classmates with the muzzle of her weapon and the kid who couldn't even get his gun out of the holster before being shot are examples of what I'm talking about.

 

[Jay]

I think it would be interesting to duplicate the lecture hall setting but have half the class armed, after a basic pistol, and personal protection class, and the right to carry on campus.

 

[patton487]

Agreed. Please don't think I'm advocating ANY legal requirements conditional to exercising your Constitutional rights.
That was not my intention.
I DO feel that it's our responsibility as gun owners to ensure that we seek out the knowledge and experience to become an asset and not a liability to society in the event we need to defend ourselves or others.

The girl that flagged her classmates with the muzzle of her weapon and the kid who couldn't even get his gun out of the holster before being shot are examples of what I'm talking about.

I agree training is important. That is why I have taken several training courses and practice almost every week with my daily carry. However, In the previous scenario I would rather be in a room full of armed people who are not that experienced than a room full of spineless sheeple.

 

[patton487]

I think it would be interesting to duplicate the lecture hall setting but have half the class armed, after a basic pistol, and personal protection class, and the right to carry on campus.

++1.^^^ But if you did that ABC would not get the pre-conceived conclusion that the want.

 

[ProLibertate]

I agree training is important. That is why I have taken several training courses and practice almost every week with my daily carry. However, In the previous scenario I would rather be in a room full of armed people who are not that experienced than a room full of spineless sheeple.

Not to mention the fact that the gunman probably wouldn't have even entered the room if carry on campus wasn't taboo.

 

[Eddie]

What would be wrong with a classroom full of people OCing? Why does the gun have to hang in a loose holster at 12 o'clock and be covered by a dress sized t-shirt. Why is a student mindful enough of their personal safety to carry a gun sitting in the front row? This scenario was pre-engineered to cause the student to fail. Their opponent is a firearms instructor who clearly knows of their location in the room and the minimal training and substandard equipment all all part of an anti-gun agenda.

 

[schafe]

So let's see..... According to ABC news, since we couldn't possibly be as good in a panic situation, as the police, we should be denied that tool of self defense,(the gun) and become a voluntary victim. Great logic, ABC, As usual.

 

[indytechnerd]

Such a ridiculously skewed setup...Video 1 @3:42, a replay from the helmet cam of the 'shooter'. He turns, double taps our hapless CCer, lowers the weapon while a 'victim' runs between them, and raises the weapon back to the CCer to pop him a 3rd time. Best I can tell from the audio, 6 shots are fired...2 at the 'instructor', 1 at a random student, and 3 at our hero.

I think what this video really reflects is why it's better to OC

 

[Eddie]

I think a more interesting test would be to give the gun to an untrained person and send them into a classroom filled with gun owners who had practiced a lot with the training weapons and had time to work on their rigs and choose appropriate clothing. Such a video could send a message to criminals not to attempt shooting sprees outside of gun free zones.

 

[MTC]

Compared to some segments aired in the past, this one actually looks decent.
Regardless of real or perceived media bias, if it sparks some interest and motivation in the students to seek additional scenario-based training, it will have served a purpose and been worthwhile.
So..."Is our training adequate?" or "Have we been training adequately?" can be rhetorical questions each student will have to answer for themselves.

For myself: Just as with fields of academic study or hands-on training, it's never enough. The more you learn, the more you find out you don't know.

It's been good so far. I appreciate the many course offerings available. Can't do them all at once. Looking forward to more...

 

[ProLibertate]

Compared to some segments aired in the past, this one actually looks decent.
Regardless of real or perceived media bias, if it sparks some interest and motivation in the students to seek additional scenario-based training, it will have served a purpose and been worthwhile.
So..."Is our training adequate?" or "Have we been training adequately?" can be rhetorical questions each student will have to answer for themselves.

For myself: Just as with fields of academic study or hands-on training, it's never enough. The more you learn, the more you find out you don't know.

It's been good so far. I appreciate the many course offerings available. Can't do them all at once. Looking forward to more...

THAT is exactly what I was getting at.

I am not saying one way or another. Just trying to ignite the fire of thought....
If you need me, I'll be at the range.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

This scenario was pre-engineered to cause the student to fail. Their opponent is a firearms instructor who clearly knows of their location in the room and the minimal training and substandard equipment all all part of an anti-gun agenda.

These videos are years old, but I agree. This is as far from real life as it could be. It's a given however, certain training has to be done a certain way for safety... at least in some aspects. Trying to "hamstring" a participant can be useful and result in a positive transfer of learning. Staging things to prove a point is another matter.

One of the biggest gaps I see in training is the failure to understand and apply basic safety rules. A big one is the understanding of "EVERY GUN IS LOADED".

I get people all the time in the shop that want to sign their "wife" up for training, but don't want to take the course themselves because they have been "shooting forever". Then when given a gun in the shop they don't clear it, have their finger on the trigger, and point the gun at me and the wife. I'm not affraid to offend such people and ALWAYS bring it to their attention by saying "You really need to take the class too". The response? "Well I wouldn't do that if I thought it was loaded." *BIG SIGH*

If you treat your gun differently once you "unload it" or find yourself saying "Oh, I just cleared it. It's unloaded." you are an accident waiting to happen. EVERY GUN IS LOADED! GET IT? Even the one you just unloaded and set down on the cleaning bench. If you truly understand this rule you will never utter the words "I didn't think it was loaded!"

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I've been through some pretty good police firearms qualification training and attended semi-annual qualifications and training for a number of years, but it's hard to find places to practice anything other than lane-shooting if you're not affiliated with an LEA, especially for the use of long-arms. Despite many years in the military, my first formal pistol training was in 1996 and I have no doubt my skills (such as they were) have deteriorated over the last five years.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Despite many years in the military, my first formal pistol training was in 1996 and I have no doubt my skills (such as they were) have deteriorated over the last five years.

What's important here is you REALIZE and ADMIT your skills have deteriorated. That's HUGE! Human factors play a large role in firearm safety and the ability to analize objectively your own situation is a credit to you!

 

[Security122]

How many states issue a LTCH with only a background check? I appreciate how easily I got my LTCH in Indiana, but I would be a little more comfortable if I knew everyone carrying at least had some basic handgun training and knowledge of handgun laws. About the video... Well, at least the hero kept the attention of the BG while everyone else ran out of the room!

 

[DesertDoc]

Interesting video that does make you want to spend more time at the range, I agree with several others posts that I normally do not wear a shirt that looks like a dress and inhibits the use of my firearm. Also if you notice these were amateur inexperienced students going up against veteran police officers that were firearms instructors. Also noticed that one of the instructors shirts identified him as a tactical officer. That being said you never know who you wi be going up against and it is in our interest to train for the worst case scenario. Either way makes me want to go to the range and practice some drills.