Is our training adequate?

[Eddie]

Re-read accounts of the Virginia Tech Shootings. Students and teachers had time to build barricades and lock themselves in rooms. Two or three of them were shot through doors while holding the doors closed. How different would that have turned out if just one person had been armed and able to shoot back?

 

[littletommy]

Once I saw that this was an ABC video, I didn't bother watching. They are the worst purveyors of liberal garbage, and I know without watching what their conclusions, and or, their agenda is here. To address your main question, without the ABC news BS, I can honestly say, I don't know. I train with my carry weapon as often as I can, and go over scenarios in my mind more often than that, but, until SHTF, I won't know, and neither would somebody who has had every training course they could get.

 

[littletommy]

Re-read accounts of the Virginia Tech Shootings. Students and teachers had time to build barricades and lock themselves in rooms. Two or three of them were shot through doors while holding the doors closed. How different would that have turned out if just one person had been armed and able to shoot back?

I agree 100%, but you can drive that through the heads of soccer mom and teddy bear daddy with a railroad spike and it won't make a single bit of difference to the likes of them and ABC, NBC, CBS, and all the other sheep waiting at the trough for their next meal.

 

[Eddie]

Once I saw that this was an ABC video, I didn't bother watching. They are the worst purveyors of liberal garbage, and I know without watching what their conclusions, and or, their agenda is here. To address your main question, without the ABC news BS, I can honestly say, I don't know. I train with my carry weapon as often as I can, and go over scenarios in my mind more often than that, but, until SHTF, I won't know, and neither would somebody who has had every training course they could get.

SHTF in the form of a firearms instructor charging into the room with a gun drawn is going to be tough for anybody to effectively respond. I'm sitting here with a pistol on my hip and if a guy that knows how to shoot, and knows exactly where I am sitting runs in the front door with the intention to shoot me down I know I'm going to have a hard time.

 

[littletommy]

SHTF in the form of a firearms instructor charging into the room with a gun drawn is going to be tough for anybody to effectively respond. I'm sitting here with a pistol on my hip and if a guy that knows how to shoot, and knows exactly where I am sitting runs in the front door with the intention to shoot me down I know I'm going to have a hard time.

Yep! I wouldn't wanna have to pass that test.

 

[jeremy]

You know what an expert is?!

Someone who has failed every way possible to fail in his chosen form of expertise...

I have had a fair amount of training in various forms and martial skills. You know what I have learned in several trips into Indian Country?! Luck trumps Skill...
So while you are worried about going to the newest jimmy uber cool training to learn the newest and coolest way to tactically shoot a firearm. Do not forget that Luck/Divine Intervention can still kick the best operator in his testes and give you a reality check...

 

[ATM]

Here's a thread with feedback from last year:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...20_20_if_i_had_a_gun_post-review_of_show.html

 

[cosermann]

Just as an FYI and to tie these threads together.

Thread from March 2010.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._defense/80361-abc_s_if_only_i_had_a_gun.html

Threads from April 2009.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._i_only_had_a_gun_--_mark_your_calendars.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...20_20_if_i_had_a_gun_post-review_of_show.html

 

[jeremy]

Here's a thread with feedback from last year:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...20_20_if_i_had_a_gun_post-review_of_show.html

Just as an FYI and to tie these threads together.

Thread from March 2010.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._defense/80361-abc_s_if_only_i_had_a_gun.html

Threads from April 2009.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._i_only_had_a_gun_--_mark_your_calendars.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...20_20_if_i_had_a_gun_post-review_of_show.html

WOW!!!

Either you guys are much better at Google-Fu than most...
Or you have way to much time spent on site...

 

[cosermann]

Google-Fu young grasshopper.

 

[ATM]

Either you guys are much better at Google-Fu than most...
Or you have way to much time spent on site...

Google-Fu young grasshopper.

I see everything.

 

[Coach]

Most people are undertrained. I am not a fan of required training but I am a fan of more people who think they don't need it getting it.

One of my favorite Cooperism is : Having a gun does not mean that you are armed any more that owning an instrument makes you a musician.

The proper place for your gun when the fight begins is in your hand not the holster.

I would like to see the same test but the firearms instructor has to come in and not know where the armed student is.

 

[jeremy]

I see everything.

You see everything huh...
Next time you peep into my house I am going to have to charge you admission...

 

[Shay]

You know what an expert is?!

Someone who has failed every way possible to fail in his chosen form of expertise...

I have had a fair amount of training in various forms and martial skills. You know what I have learned in several trips into Indian Country?! Luck trumps Skill...
So while you are worried about going to the newest jimmy uber cool training to learn the newest and coolest way to tactically shoot a firearm. Do not forget that Luck/Divine Intervention can still kick the best operator in his testes and give you a reality check...

You can do everything right and still die. You can do everything wrong and survive. It's true.

But... training matters. It's no guarantee of results or outcomes, but it is a factor that you can control that changes the percentages in your favor.

 

[jeremy]

You can do everything right and still die. You can do everything wrong and survive. It's true.

But... training matters. It's no guarantee of results or outcomes, but it is a factor that you can control that changes the percentages in your favor.

Oh I agree. However I would not claim it gives one an edge. It does make one better prepared though.

I just get tired of the belief that with Training comes some mystical and mythical power to tap into. Just like I also get really tired of "trainers" teaching "Combat Skills" who have never been in harms way let alone off U.S. Soil...

 

[ATM]

Next time you peep into my house I am going to have to charge you admission...

What's changed?

The last time I peeped into your house, I demanded a refund.

 

[jeremy]

What's changed?

The last time I peeped into your house, I demanded a refund.

It was not me in my House last time you peeped...

 

[ATM]

It was not me in my House last time you peeped...

...oops.


I mean, um...

back, buddy!

 

[cbhausen]

I'd like to see a bunch of trained, experienced folks with proper dress and their own familiar gear in the same types of situations. I believe the outcome would be quite different. As for the long t-shirts over OWB holsters and helmets... yeah, thats some valid study. Way to go, ABC News.

I'm all for proficiency training but not like this. In fact, I'd jump at the chace to participate in real-world self-defense training. I'll agree shooting small groups at the range doesn't mean one is ready when SHTF.

The video report (despite its many flaws) is effective in leaving me thinking "How would I react? Would I make the right decisions in a life-or-death situation? Would I survive?".

Ayoob's books In the Gravest Extreme: the Role of the Firearm in Personal Defense, Stress Fire!, and The Ayoob Files are excellent reading. The shootout narratives in The Ayoob Files are absolutely gripping; I read the book in one sitting and have re-read it several times.

<thinking of finding more training>

 

[Prometheus]

I've seen these before. Those video's are the biggest load of anti gun crapola ever made. The whole thing is set up to fail so people will be discouraged about CC.
Nothing about is is real life. Tell me, when will you be wearing a giant helmet to restrict your vision? A long white shirt to your knees to restrict your draw? And when will a bad guy be told in advance who the only person who has a gun in a room of over 30 people is.
You notice that each time the BG goes strait to attack the only one with a gun? What a bunch BS

It is completely rigged. Randomly put the armed student in the room and give th egunman no idea who it's going to be.

The armed student was in the same seat every time and the split second after the teacher was shot, the BG went strait for the armed student, in some of the clips the student hadn't even started to reach for their gun.

In any event people do not realize how incompetent with a firearm they are until they get instruction on how to properly present a firearm and fire it.

These videos just show how people get stuck into no win situations.