Is our training adequate?

[ProLibertate]

Agreed.
I'm not trying to sway opinion one way or another, I just wanted to get a discussion rolling. Everyone can take something away from that video. If nothing else, just asking ourselves how we would handle an active shooter scenario.
I think we can all agree that this particular exercise set the student up for failure from the beginning- for a number of reasons.
I don't know anyone who carries a gun that doesn't take a number of factors into consideration before ever leaving the house. Style of dress, holster and carry position, etc are just the most basic of examples.
Also, I think we can agree that none of us would sit front row center in a setting like the one pictured, rather opting for a more strategic location allowing for rapid exit, good sight lines and so on.
Some good feedback so far.

 

[Eddie]

I want to add something else, maybe for our INGOers with experience as trainers to answer. Why does the scenario end when somebody gets shot? I'm serious. Not every shooting by a long margin ends when someone draws first blood. Its not a duel. I've personally seen people shot several times who continued to fight on or who ran for several blocks. Shouldn't the training be to keep returning fire/escaping regardless of the number of hits?

 

[Jay]

Counting hits is often impossible. It's not like shooting paper, where a hole appears after a shot. Through clothing, hits often take several minutes to bleed through to indicate a hit. I teach "keep shooting until the the aggressor ceases to be a threat".....

 

[ProLibertate]

I want to add something else, maybe for our INGOers with experience as trainers to answer. Why does the scenario end when somebody gets shot? I'm serious. Not every shooting by a long margin ends when someone draws first blood. Its not a duel. I've personally seen people shot several times who continued to fight on or who ran for several blocks. Shouldn't the training be to keep returning fire/escaping regardless of the number of hits?

Very good point, Eddie.

And Jay, good answer. Semper Fi, brother.

 

[Jay]

I also teach that if you down an intruder/aggressor, do NOT approach, keep your distance, 911, and wait for the polilce. If an intruder/aggressor turns tail and runs, your legal ability to use deadly force no longer exists. Do NOT pursue, be a good witness. Entrance wounds in the back do not lend themselves to a plea of self defense.

Semper Fi...

 

[Shay]

I want to add something else, maybe for our INGOers with experience as trainers to answer. Why does the scenario end when somebody gets shot? I'm serious. Not every shooting by a long margin ends when someone draws first blood. Its not a duel. I've personally seen people shot several times who continued to fight on or who ran for several blocks. Shouldn't the training be to keep returning fire/escaping regardless of the number of hits?

Where have you trained where they taught this?

The fight doesn't end when the bad guy is shot.

I specifically split all my classes into three distinct sections: before, during and after the fight. I teach tactics and techniques that give structure and improve performance in each stage.

 

[Muzzle Flash]

Good read you guy's . I enjoyed this blog/discussion . As for myself , I just try to keep everybody I know up to snuff.

 

[Eddie]

Where have you trained where they taught this?

The fight doesn't end when the bad guy is shot.

I specifically split all my classes into three distinct sections: before, during and after the fight. I teach tactics and techniques that give structure and improve performance in each stage.

Watch the video in the OP. As soon as the student takes a hit they stop the exercise and tell them it is over. Another example of structuring the scenario towards failure.

 

[GeneralCarver]

Look dude, probably the most well trained people could HARDLY react in time and correctly in the total AMBUSH they set up. That was an ambush. Your pretty much doomed in that situation.

I wish they would have redone the situation and made it so the students hear gun shots first down the hall.. and then lets see what happens when, after a few seconds or a minute the guy comes through the door. Probably way different story.

Also, if your pro gun, don't ever use that video for anything. It was carefully designed propaganda to get people to be scared of using pistols for self defense. They had him dressed totally stupid.. (that long white shirt over his holster.. it was set up that way to get the gun snagged on the clothing to screw up his draw).