Is This Impartial Justice? How Can Judge Not Call Mistrial?

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  • BugI02

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    If it was a “witch hunt,” then as my preacher says “the truth shall set you free.” Problem? Stone repeatedly didn’t tell the truth and threatened other people in the process. We have laws for reasons. You break them there’s a penalty. IMO, the president has a moral obligation to stay out of cases where he was somehow involved, and certainly out of cases that involve friends he’s had for decades. I doubt the president has read up on Stone’s entire case file... and if he has, and is willing to weigh in publicly as he already, then he illustrating the favoritism he extends to his friends as I’m confident he’s not reading over ever case file coming out of the DoJ.

    I disagree. What brought Stone into the dock was that he was supposedly shilling for wikileaks/Assange and was a critical link in 'proving' what we now know as the Russia collusion hoax. Have any of those contentions been proven? No, it has all been process crimes that were an outgrowth of the illicit prosecution. He is responsible for his behavior once he was thrown in the briar patch, but as a private citizen caught in the gears he should be given something well under the maximum penalties. You should pay more attention to the Flynn prosecution, which is part and parcel the same FBI strategy. How can extorting a guilty plea to a process crime using the ruining of the man's finances and those of his family with bottomless budget sequential prosecution driven by a partisan agenda be considered justice? Don't we hear about this same sort of abuse being perpetrated on many other people, usually people of color with diminished resources, by prosecutors of all stripes?

    It seems you can go in two directions, but not both at the same time. You can either 'glory' in the fact that even people of means such as Stone and Flynn cannot escape determined, targeted prosecution of dubious provenance, or you can be terrified of it. On path leads to Jacobins and The Terror, the other to innocent until proven guilty and the need for there to be actual crimes already alleged before being dragged into the grinder. The core concept of recognizing something as a witch hunt is - were there any witches found? Could there ever be?
     

    Ingomike

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    During the previous administration there was no need to. Obama allowed the DoJ to do it's job without interference. Obama associates; Jessie Jackson Jr, Anthony Weiner, and Rod Blagojevich were all tried and convicted by his DoJ. None were pardoned. No public comments about how unfairly they were treated. No suggestions that they were treated too harshly. I can't help but wonder if in similar situations would Trump have done the same. I have not seen any inclination that he is willing to punish people who commit crimes, if those persons are loyal to him.

    Really, you compare these? If Stone had stolen campaign money, tried to sell a senate seat, and a sex crime, this all would be different.


    FYI, I do not like Stone, he is a idiotic clown, but should not die in prison for that so the deep state can claim a Trump scalp...
     
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    Kutnupe14

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    Really, you compare these? If Stone had stolen campaign money, tried to sell a senate seat, and a sex crime, this all would be different.

    I'm not sure I believe that. I think Trump was spot on when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and not lose support.
     

    BugI02

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    Nonviolent crime should not lead to long terms of incarceration.

    I'm not a fan of Roger Stone, and he is definitely guilty. We just need serious criminal justice reform.

    That's all. We can go back to the thread as intended.

    Some process needs to be in place to inhibit purely political prosecutions of this type

    Was whether he intended to commit his crimes adequately considered, based on how the FBI used intent in ... other prosecution decisions
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Amen, brother. Despite his recorded talent, it took a determined effort by fans online to get Stabler into the NFL HoF, it will likely take the same for Charlie Hustle

    I agree too. Pete NOW deserves to be in he hall. He's served his time, especially after the passes given out to guys during the Steroid Era. I met Pete Rose in Vegas, no crowd, just randomly ran into him. I was stupid giddy. The smile didn't leave my face for the rest of the day... and I know other HoF players personally, but Rose was the one that got me.
     

    BugI02

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    From my understanding, the Obama administration started the kinder and gentler punishments for federal crimes, from the harsher punishments that were employed under the Reagan/Bush eras. Trump in his campaign to change anything related to Obama, returned us to the Reagan/Bush punishment. The DoJ pursued that policy until, Roger Stone.

    Your understanding may be imperfect

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/12/why-a-nine-year-prison-sentence-for-roger-stone-is-insane/
    Why A Nine-Year Prison Sentence For Roger Stone Is Insane
     

    Libertarian01

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    I don't know about the other charges, but to my thinking intimidating a witness is really, really bad. Whether it is effective or not (per BugI02's link) is not relevant in my opinion.

    Think about it folks, this is John Gotti, Mexican Drug Cartel type of activity. Sure, it may(?) not be violent, but our system relies on people being free to speak the truth without fear, on ANY type of case from a mass killing to shoplifting. If we allow folks to threaten witnesses into silence we allow for a less safe society. I am not arguing for a nanny state, but for allowing what we do have to work without interference. Bribing a witness is just as bad as threatening. It isn't violent, but it sure does allow for massive damage to our system if allowed to go unchecked.

    Say I steal your credit information, and I, you know, buy about $20k on "your" new credit cards. This isn't "violent." I haven't physically hurt you or anyone. But ruined your life for the next 2 -5 years? Oh yeah! Try to buy a new home, car, whatever using ruined credit. Then try to clean it up. Lawyers, credit agencies, etc. Just because something is "nonviolent" doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

    Just some thoughts to consider.

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    CampingJosh

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    Just because something is "nonviolent" doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

    Just some thoughts to consider.

    Regards,

    Doug

    Incarceration is not the only possible punishment. Nobody is saying that nonviolent offenses should be ignored; just that incarceration shouldn't be the very first option in a criminal justice system.
     

    Ingomike

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    Generally respected Jonathan Turley has a piece out about the Stone juror and it is interesting.

    I have previously written about how I believe that the DOJ was correct in its rejection of the absurdly high recommendation of seven to nine years in prison for Stone. However, there are legitimate questions that must still be addressed on how the Justice Department came to that decision. Yet while cable shows exhaustively cover that story, there is an equally serious question as to whether the conviction itself, rather than the sentencing recommendation, should be reevaluated.

    It certainly seems Hart had no place on the Stone jury. The Supreme Court has repeatedly declared that the “minimal standards of due process” demand “a panel of impartial, indifferent jurors.” Hart’s record suggests little that is impartial or indifferent. She was perfectly within her right to engage in such commentary and protests — but she had no right to sit in judgment of an associate of the president after her public declarations. Her participation raises serious arguments for setting aside the verdict, from the possibility of ineffective counsel to the denial of due process.


    The burden now is on Judge Jackson to hold a hearing on this matter and address the possible need for a mistrial. And one thing will be clear: Judge Jackson, in the words of Juror No. 1261, does not “gotta love” any of this.


    https://thehill.com/opinion/crimina...-1261-in-roger-stones-case-was-justice-undone
     

    Kutnupe14

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    BugI02

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    So you're saying, if you were on trial, you wouldn't mind white supremacists being empaneled on the jury as long as they admitted to not having opinions about your specific case :laugh:
     

    Cameramonkey

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    So you're saying, if you were on trial, you wouldn't mind white supremacists being empaneled on the jury as long as they admitted to not having opinions about your specific case :laugh:


    But only if he says "But I have a black friend."
     

    ghuns

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    ...I met Pete Rose in Vegas, no crowd, just randomly ran into him. I was stupid giddy. The smile didn't leave my face for the rest of the day... and I know other HoF players personally, but Rose was the one that got me.

    I've seen him countless times in a sports memorabilia shop between Luxor and Mandalay Bay. Just sitting a table waiting to charge somebody for an autograph.

    Always makes me sad.:(

    Then I go eat the kobe beef burger with truffle fries at The Burger Bar, and I'm happy again.:rockwoot:
     

    Ingomike

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    Maybe, but his crimes are overstated and the greed of his clients allowed them to willingly ignore reality.

    Someone else gets this!

    In round numbers, Madoff is given $20 mil by investors, he sends statements telling them it is worth $40 mil, how much did he steal? I say $20 mil and a dream...
     
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